GW finally getting it right? - Page 15 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
General 40k This is the place to talk about everything related to Warhammer 40k.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #141 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 05:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Pssyche's Avatar
Pssyche's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,146
Reputation: 4
Default

Ploughing through this thread this morning, I couldn't help but be reminded of Dennis the Anarcho-Syndicalist Commune Peasant from Monty Python and the Holy Grail each and every time I read a post by Jin.

http://Monty Python- The Annoying Pe...be/rAaWvVFERVA

Though I take your life, I promise you the stars...
Pssyche is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #142 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
nice boy, daft though !
 
bitsandkits's Avatar
bitsandkits's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,212
Reputation: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scscofield View Post
Don't bother arguing with him Bits, he comes here every year ranting about that subject as you pointed out.
good point, sorry.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

HUGE BITZ RESTOCK NOW ON
bitsandkits is offline  
post #143 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 09:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Doom wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 112
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmantis View Post
Also this is a hobby so either enjoy..or STFU!..cause quite frankly reading the same pathetically boring whinnying is just pointless.
Enjoy your toys and BE THANKFUL YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEM! cause there's many people who cant even afford to eat!
Oh, yeah, I just love this argument :

We should be thankful to be screwed by upper management who doesn't really care about anything more than the money in our wallet, because people get soooo baaad in other country.

I guess that by those same standard, these peoples who can't afford to eat should be thankful because, hey ! they have sunny and hot weather all day long !

Flawed logic, if you ask me.

There's a saying where I live who say, "Who like well, punish as well". It means that even if you like something, there's no reason to not point out where there's flaws and abuse in what you like.
Doom wolf is offline  
 
post #144 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 10:40 AM
Senior Member
 
fatmantis's Avatar
fatmantis's Flag is: New Zealand
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Shenzhen china
Posts: 1,755
Reputation: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom wolf View Post
Oh, yeah, I just love this argument :

We should be thankful to be screwed by upper management who doesn't really care about anything more than the money in our wallet, because people get soooo baaad in other country.

I guess that by those same standard, these peoples who can't afford to eat should be thankful because, hey ! they have sunny and hot weather all day long !

Flawed logic, if you ask me.

There's a saying where I live who say, "Who like well, punish as well". It means that even if you like something, there's no reason to not point out where there's flaws and abuse in what you like.
flawed??? how? because i point out that people are complaining about the cost of a piece of plastic?? when other people cant afford the basics? yea massively flawed....its all about perspective mate...if its to expensive dont buy it simple..stop complaining..dont buy it
fatmantis is offline  
post #145 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
nice boy, daft though !
 
bitsandkits's Avatar
bitsandkits's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,212
Reputation: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom wolf View Post
There's a saying where I live who say, "Who like well, punish as well". It means that even if you like something, there's no reason to not point out where there's flaws and abuse in what you like.
this doesnt make any sense



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

HUGE BITZ RESTOCK NOW ON
bitsandkits is offline  
post #146 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 11:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Doom wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 112
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmantis View Post
flawed??? how? because i point out that people are complaining about the cost of a piece of plastic?? when other people cant afford the basics? yea massively flawed....its all about perspective mate...if its to expensive dont buy it simple..stop complaining..dont buy it
Aaah, I was waiting for this one...

"If you don't like it, don't buy it !", it sounds too much like "If you don't like it, leave it !" to me.

Not to say, that GW was last I heard of them, GW was trying to buy the terms "Space Marines" ? Heh ? They're pushing way too much, my friend.

The core of the problem is that I like WH40K, but I'm not liking the way they are heading now.

It's worth to complain as much as it's worth to stop buying. If I stop Buying, I kill the franchise, but if I complain too, maybe someone will hear and they try to change before it's too late... because the one who kill the game will get away with the money, and will leave nothing in their wake.
Doom wolf is offline  
post #147 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
nice boy, daft though !
 
bitsandkits's Avatar
bitsandkits's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,212
Reputation: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom wolf View Post
Aaah, I was waiting for this one...

"If you don't like it, don't buy it !", it sounds too much like "If you don't like it, leave it !" to me.

Not to say, that GW was last I heard of them, GW was trying to buy the terms "Space Marines" ? Heh ? They're pushing way too much, my friend.

The core of the problem is that I like WH40K, but I'm not liking the way they are heading now.

It's worth to complain as much as it's worth to stop buying. If I stop Buying, I kill the franchise, but if I complain too, maybe someone will hear and they try to change before it's too late... because the one who kill the game will get away with the money, and will leave nothing in their wake.
you seems to have returned to 40k a very jaded person, dont like it dont buy is almost exactly like dont buy it leave it, i not really sure what your point is with that one, the facts are nobody is forcing anyone to buy or play gws products, you have total free will, some people play without paying, some people pay and never play and some people pay and enjoy every second of the hobby and never ever give any thought to what the board of directors is doing with the company, its a hobby, i tend to find that those who treat it like one, tend to enjoy it far more than those think that by buying a model from GW they some how have an entitlement to an opinion of how the company should be best run.

GW have never tried to buy the term space marine, thats utter nonsense and its very silly of you to believe it, GW have trademarked the term in some territories in some mediums which they are perfectly okay to do so, it is however a very generic term and in some cases the trademarks dont stand up to scrutiny, and because of that we are likley to see the term adeptus astartes sneak into usage far more as the days move on, but always remember that GW have created a successful company and amazing gaming universes that requireS protection, and no more so than in recent years, For 25 years nobody batted an eyelid at what GW was doing, then the world economy tanks, people start looking for ways to make a little extra money, some semi talented people decide they can make minis and decide rather than starting up there own little companies and creating new universes it far quicker just to jump on the GW band wagon and use GWs IP and ideas. So is it really pushing it too much?

You say you like 40k but not the way its heading? this makes no sense really, do you mean the rules? the fluff?the models ? cant be the models surely? the models are by far some of the best models ever made for 40k, so what is it?

i agree you should complain, but what are you complaining about? and doing it hear is fruitless, but if your willing to complain(to the correct people) please be open minded enough to accept that your complaint may be invalid simply because it could just be based on your opinion.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

HUGE BITZ RESTOCK NOW ON
bitsandkits is offline  
post #148 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 05:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Doom wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 112
Reputation: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitsandkits View Post

You say you like 40k but not the way its heading? this makes no sense really, do you mean the rules? the fluff?the models ? cant be the models surely? the models are by far some of the best models ever made for 40k, so what is it?

i agree you should complain, but what are you complaining about? and doing it hear is fruitless, but if your willing to complain(to the correct people) please be open minded enough to accept that your complaint may be invalid simply because it could just be based on your opinion.

Jaded ? Heck, no !

The OP wanted to have an opinion if GW was doing right, I was just giving him my own. It just happen that I think they aren't doing right.


Now, the post who really pushed my berserk button was the one who said that we had to be grateful to have this hobby, whatever the price it demanded to us in money because some people in some poor world can't afford to buy themselves a meal.

It's smack me as an attempt to play on our inner culpability as an excuse to not critisize the economical politics of G.W. and accept whatever move they do to make more money.

Back earlier in the thread, you will find my first post here :

https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...171698&page=10

You made a point with the space marines trademark, but to me, you lost one with the "total free will" argument. I don't believe in "total free will" anyway. People make choice according to their capability, their mean and environnement, that doesn't stop them to feel frustration and anger when they know that the consequence of the self-fulfilling wish can be dire...

And truth is, yes, I can't afford this hobby because of it's prices of the mini. I'm not dirt poor, but I must make choice, and I've said it earlier, the price of the models just skyrocketing insanely for no reason at best, or outright lie at worse.

(I still laugh when I remember the one about a fantastic new material that accompanied the price rising of 20 or 25%... )

Oh yeah, and the Squat, I loved the Squat too...
Doom wolf is offline  
post #149 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 08:34 PM
Critique for da CriticGod
 
Kreuger's Avatar
Kreuger's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Posts: 3,350
Reputation: 43
Default

@bitsandkits - per your original post, I doubt the fan base will ever really be done complaining. It does seem like GW might be producing things more in line with what the consumer generally speaking wants.

My guess would be that following the production of Dark Vengeance GW managed to revise their development pipe-line in a number of ways to streamline the design and production process in plastics. Working on this assumption it looks like they are able to bring new spiffy models to market. I would also hazard that this is the core of their business strategy "keep the consumer interested and excited." All of that is basically good. I think the remaining problem is, and will likely remain the cost.

The cost of the product seems astronomical. Considering GW is selling primarily plastic miniatures . . a few examples: 5 plastic Skullreaper models for $57.00 or any of the plastic terminators at 5 models for $50.00, the space marine tactical squad at 10 models for $40.00.

A lot of these are well designed and very cool, but has the production cost of plastic models really outstripped inflation so far? As far as I can tell the Khorne Berzerker box is right about inline with inflation at $37.25 for 12 Berzerkers, or 3.10 per model. And these are comparatively dated now. There's certainly an argument to be made for additional parts in these sets and the cost for producing them, but the costs seems to have much more to do with points value or number available in an army, or necessary e.g. the $30.00 plastic space marine captain.

That just seems like foolishness to me.

I'm sure there's an analyst somewhere looking at the purchase curve for models related to the number the army requires compared to the cost and they figured out about how far they can push it, but clearly a $30 Space marine captain is absurd compared to a $3.10 Berserker or even a $10.00 Skullreaper.

Other than the cost factors which I think will always be a sticking point, and where GW will always be willing to push juuuust a little harder I'd say they are doing a better job.

The stater sets are better than they ever have been. The models are beautiful and comparatively still a great deal. The books have only gotten better over the last 4 editions. Ironically, in my opinion, they have improved as they have gotten closer to 2nd edition again (now if they'd only dump AP value and return to save modifiers!). The book rule books though have gotten better. 3rd ed's was awful; ugly, hard to use, a poorly bound. Each iteration there after improved until they even added an index! 6th was a nice book but the rules needed tuning and balancing. And as I understand 7th ed sop far the new books are well made. GW listened that people wanted to split the rules from the other sections of the BRB and made the new version Rules, Hobby, and History.

And finally it seems like they are making moves towards enlivening the fluff of the world. It has been largely static for some 15 (or more) years and that represented a problem. Forge World and Black libaray branched backwards into 30k and GW will continue pushing the central stories of 40k and Fantasy battle forward. Hopefully there is enough movement to keep everyone interested and engaged.

TL;DR

Cost is, was, and will remain a problem.
Otherwise the game has been tightened and improved since the debacle of the 3rd edition rewrite and the cost of business (petroleum/plastics) appears to be decreasing so the future looks bright!

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
Kreuger is offline  
post #150 of 185 (permalink) Old 03-06-15, 09:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Moonschwine's Avatar
Moonschwine's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Near Bath UK
Posts: 682
Reputation: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmantis View Post
Enjoy your toys and BE THANKFUL YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEM! cause there's many people who cant even afford to eat!
Then they should stop buying GW stuff.

Inspiring Quote:

"Ambition is the biggest killer of Momentum"

Active Projects:

The Catechized

Starting afresh with my Chaos Space Marines.

Project Log Link (Placeholder) -


Project Rebuild, Reboot, Recycle:

Stripping, rebuilding and remaking my Guard army.
Moonschwine is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > General 40k

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome