Quad-Gun Still Worth Taking @ 1000pts? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 12:41 PM
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This entire thread actually worries me slightly... I think I need to go grab the new book and read up on Skyfire/Interceptor... you're no longer able to choose how it fires? Did Tau running VTs just get hurt also?

An attempt by GW to get fliers in to act as anti-flier?

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 12:44 PM
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Interceptor no longer has the bit allowing you to shoot full BS at ground targets. So a Skyfire/ Interceptor weapon can only shoot air targets at full BS and ground targets are snapshots.

http://i.imgur.com/aPfHUHy.gif?1




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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 01:13 PM
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Yeah, I just read it. *rips the VT off his Riptide*

So Tau just took a HUGE hit to their anti-air support. Time to start converting a Barracuda!

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 01:21 PM
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Eh? You lost me there, the VT allows you to choose if you have Skyfire or not. How does the change to Interceptor effect that?

http://i.imgur.com/aPfHUHy.gif?1




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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 01:37 PM
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Velo Tracker only provided the option to use Skyfire, which was better than the SF/Int combo quad used. Early Warning Override gives Tau interceptor. Tau still get to abuse the system. My Tau liked using the quad gun, and I almost exclusively used it on ground targets, and I just bought a Tau themed one online, so mucho dissapointed.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 01:51 PM
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That was me getting the rules wrong as RAW. I thought the VT would force my Riptides to only snap shot at ground targets, which, for instance, made the Ion templates fail completely.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-09-14, 03:58 PM
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I agree with the sentiment that the best anti air defense comes from having your own air presence.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-16-14, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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So yep, squeezing a Vendetta into 1k somehow.

I'm not sure how the conversation turned to net listing? Is taking an aegis+quad-gun considered net listing? The comment from @fatmantis to bring the unexpected only enforces the concept that an all comers list is no longer possible. With so much rock paper scissors, a list that forgoes all rock and paper for only scissors (say av14 spam) has the best chance of winning. That is of course unless you face your list's rock. How would playing the game like that be in any way enjoyable when it is decided before you place your army onto the table?

We now must have answers for spam of all kinds, AV14, super-heavies, fliers, wave serpents/rhinos, infantry horde, etc. How is a balanced list supposed to survive in this environment? Given this, there is incredibly few combinations that are even remotely viable without spamming, especially at 1k. The rules seem to be forcing balanced armies to look the exact same, increasing the prevalence of net lists. You must take at least one flier capable of taking out other fliers, you must take a unit or two of melta guns, you must have a large array of str 6-7 shooting for popping transports and then finally something for hordes.

So for IG this would look like:
For Fliers:
Vendetta (Only thing IG owns that is not useless vs ground targets)

For Av14/Superheavies:
Vets w/ melta in Chimera (Scions are too unreliable now that they don't re-roll scatter. Also now that unbound is a thing, compare them to a 2 fusion crisis suit, totally laughable.)

For Hordes:
Wyvrens

For Transports:
Company Command in Chimera/Yarrick in Blob
Autocannons in Infantry Platoons

Can a case be made to take anything else? Above 1k you have a lot more options. Perhaps the Company Command and Infantry Platoons could be replaced with Leman Russ Exterminators. Or loading up on the lascannons. Is the game simply not meant to be played under 1500 points? I certainly feel that this is the case when I attempt to field CSM as there's no way I can fit in answers to everything at 1k.

The last option I can figure to salvage a 1k all comers list is unbound. This would also bring the benefit of getting away from this forced "net list" formula. Replace the veterans with drop podding Grey Hunters with melta guns. Also the Stormtalon seems a much more economical form of anti-flier than the Vendetta. And then Imperial Fist Devastators seem the obvious avenue for lascannons.

With these changes, my 1k list would look something like this:
Company Command: autocannon - 70

Platoon Command: autocannon - 40
Chimera - 65

Inquisitor (Warlord): force sword, bolt pistol - 55
Infantry: autocannon, grenade launcher - 65
Infantry: autocannon, grenade launcher - 65
Infantry: autocannon, grenade launcher - 65

Wyvren - 65

10 Grey Hunters: 2 melta guns, drop pod - 190

Stormtalon: skyhammer - 125

6 Imperial Fist Devastators: 3 lascannons - 144

Aegis - 50
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-06-14, 06:59 PM
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It is a problem I agree with @NathanJD , a net list is not gospel. Something that works for me will not necessarily work for you. It is about finding a tactic that works for you most of the time.

Personally I still take quad guns. I have gone off my fliers somewhat for more objective contesting units on the ground. It is still funny to see a vendetta fall groundward fro interceptor fire onto its own army. Not so funny if it lands on yours however. The ILC is good if you want a clean kill, but with the changes to the damage table this can still be an issue. IMO you can have as much joy with the quad gun in this situation.

The 'to unbound or not to unbound' is a big issue at my club. Some individuals love to 'mix it up', bringing wholly mechanised forces to try and wipe their opponents off the board, others to flood the area with troops and high-end weaponry. It is a matter of ethics in the end. Some people love the strategy of the game; others simply want to destroy everyhting in their path.

Regarding the limit of 1k games, either a flier or ADL are good, but depends on your method of war. Either you can sit on an objective in your deployment zone, avoiding all shooting attacks until in range of your weapons, or leave it at home, zooming fliers around making most of the air superiority (if any)

Either way it is up to the individual which theme works best and under what circumstances.

Sorry to be ambiguous but theres by two cents
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