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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-31-14, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
People could take 120 Horrors before. It was bad then, it's bad now.

Don't worry about "most competitive" armies, most books have a viable build or two now, except possibly BA. Play whatever you like.
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-31-14, 11:56 PM
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In the case of this new horror summoning build people are talking about they might be forgetting the practical limitations- time limits. I believe some people tried out tervigon spam lists in 5th, which looked great on paper, but found they were spending so much time moving models it just didn't work in a timed game.

Personally when I look at tournament results I'm usually more impressed by the guys that place highly with a weaker codex than the people who take the very top spots with the best builds. What's the better story- the premier league team with the billionaire owner who pay astronomical salaries and go on the win the league, or the underdogs with the weaker squad and no spending power who have a great season, shock everyone and finish 4th or 5th?
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-01-14, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
People could take 120 Horrors before. It was bad then, it's bad now.

Don't worry about "most competitive" armies, most books have a viable build or two now, except possibly BA. Play whatever you like.
Well, they gave us our fast tanks back so I will keep plugging away I guess.

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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-01-14, 06:51 AM
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Not to say that you can't win games, just that I don't think the codex has the tools to win tournaments. Nerfs to melee directly hurt our Troop/Elites choices, and so long as Intercepting pie plates of S8 AP3 death are a thing from Tau then Assault Marines are a waste of space apart from as a tax to unlock Fast Razorbacks.

BA as a whole are too expensive to play the numbers game, and not tough enough to win through survival as well as being less mobile than the three main armies, despite their fast transports.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-01-14, 11:01 AM
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Nerfs to melee directly hurt our Troop/Elites choices
Why do you think melee has been nerfed? If anything, in the ten or so games of 7th I've played, shooting has been dialled back and many games have been won in the assault phase.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-01-14, 11:12 AM
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Blood Angels are terrible now. But they've got an update due after orks anyway. The only thing they have going for them is Dante + 2 Sang Guard units as allies. Outside of that... Nope.

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Personally when I look at tournament results I'm usually more impressed by the guys that place highly with a weaker codex than the people who take the very top spots with the best builds. What's the better story- the premier league team with the billionaire owner who pay astronomical salaries and go on the win the league, or the underdogs with the weaker squad and no spending power who have a great season, shock everyone and finish 4th or 5th?
Whoa whoa whoa, Liverpool finished 2nd, cheers.



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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-01-14, 11:48 AM
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Why do you think melee has been nerfed? If anything, in the ten or so games of 7th I've played, shooting has been dialled back and many games have been won in the assault phase.
Well not much has changed from 6th and that was bad enough. Things have got a little better now you can use jump packs in movement and assault but you can still routinely fail 5 inch charges through cover, and melta doesn't cut it against riptide or knights. Mle is useful, but not with mediocre troops choices.

90% of people think they are above average.

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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-01-14, 12:43 PM
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Well not much has changed from 6th and that was bad enough. Things have got a little better now you can use jump packs in movement and assault but you can still routinely fail 5 inch charges through cover, and melta doesn't cut it against riptide or knights. Mle is useful, but not with mediocre troops choices.
Fair enough. My assault for Dark Angels consists almost entirely of Deathwing, either of the Hammer and Shield variety or Knights - I haven't much experience with Power-Armoured assault units unless I'm charging the three or four dudes left in a unit with Grey Knights which is just mop-up. My other army is Orks, who are just as strong as Assault Marines on the charge but with the benefit of a Str9 PK Nob and a whole bunch more dudes in the combat.

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-04-14, 05:27 AM
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I predict when the new DE codex comes along and Raiders get the same allotment of increased transport capacity for independent characters as all other new codices have, 5-man Wraithblade squads in Raiders accompanied by an Archon for grenades is going to be cheesy. (Or a dirt cheap Succubus if they get access to the Phantasm Grenade Launcher)

Something like:

DE HQ:

Archon or succubus w/ PGL
3 Haemonculi

DE troops:

3 wracks
3 wracks, raider (raider given to Wraithblades)
3 wracks, raider (raider given to Wraithblades)
Splinter Kabalites in raider
5 Wyches, HWG, in venom
5 Wyches, HWG, in venom

DE Elite:

4 Blasterborn in venom
4 Blasterborn in venom

DE Fast attack:

3 Reavers
3 Reavers
3 Reavers / Razorwing if it becomes FA like it should

DE Heavy support:

Talos to use webway portal

Eldar HQ:

Spiritseer

Eldar Troops:

5 Wraithblades
5 Wraithblades

Eldar Elites:
10 Wraithguard

Eldar fast attack:
Crimson Hunter

Eldar Heavy Support
3 War walkers

To me that seems like a potent list to nail objectives hard. Should be easy to fit into 1750 points as well with wiggle room.

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Last edited by MetalHandkerchief; 06-04-14 at 05:30 AM.
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-04-14, 09:54 AM
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Are Raiders dedicated transports?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I predict when the new DE codex comes along and Raiders get the same allotment of increased transport capacity for independent characters as all other new codices have, 5-man Wraithblade squads in Raiders accompanied by an Archon for grenades is going to be cheesy. (Or a dirt cheap Succubus if they get access to the Phantasm Grenade Launcher)

Something like:

DE HQ:

Archon or succubus w/ PGL
3 Haemonculi

DE troops:

3 wracks
3 wracks, raider (raider given to Wraithblades)
3 wracks, raider (raider given to Wraithblades)
Splinter Kabalites in raider
5 Wyches, HWG, in venom
5 Wyches, HWG, in venom

DE Elite:

4 Blasterborn in venom
4 Blasterborn in venom

DE Fast attack:

3 Reavers
3 Reavers
3 Reavers / Razorwing if it becomes FA like it should

DE Heavy support:

Talos to use webway portal

Eldar HQ:

Spiritseer

Eldar Troops:

5 Wraithblades
5 Wraithblades

Eldar Elites:
10 Wraithguard

Eldar fast attack:
Crimson Hunter

Eldar Heavy Support
3 War walkers

To me that seems like a potent list to nail objectives hard. Should be easy to fit into 1750 points as well with wiggle room.

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