7th Edition Unbound: What actually is allowed? - Page 5 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
General 40k This is the place to talk about everything related to Warhammer 40k.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 05:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Sworn Radical's Avatar
Sworn Radical's Flag is: Germany
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Heavily Spanking Saint Celestine
Posts: 721
Reputation: 5
Default

Quote:
7th ed. Rulebook, page 120:
'Sometimes a unit's Army List entry will include a Transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected together with the unit. These Dedicated Transports do not use up a slot on the Force Organisation Chart (pg. 120), but for all other purposes count as having the same Battlefield Role and Faction (if any) as the unit they were bought for.

For example, a Rhino bought for a Space Marines Tactical Squad (Troops) counts as a unit of Troops, but one bought for a Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad (Elites) counts as Elites.

Other vehicles may also have a Transport Capacity, but as they are chosen seperately, they have a Battlefield Role and occupy a Force Organisation Chart slot of their own'

Dedicated Transports are allways an OPTION for a certain unit, to be selected together with said unit.
This is clearly indicated in 5th and 6th edition codicees.

Example:

Quote:
Codex: Dark Eldar 5th:
'Certain units have the option of selecting a Dedicated Transport vehicle ... '
... and a unit entry:
Quote:
'Options:
Transports:
- The squad may take a Raider or Venom as a Dedicated Transport (see page 91 ... '
Same in 6th ed. entries:

Quote:
Codex: Eldar 6th:
'Options:
- The unit may take a Wave Serpent as a Dedicated Transport (see page 97 ... '

Again, Dedicated Transports are always a very specific option for a specific unit.

40k Armies: Dark Eldar / Adepta Sororitas
WHFB Armies: Vampire Counts / Empire / various Elves
Horus Heresy: Alpha Legion / Warp Cult
Sworn Radical is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 05:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Samules's Avatar
Samules's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern San Jose
Posts: 1,287
Reputation: 2
Default

I think analyzing the exact rules wording on the shits and giggles with friends mode is probably the most useless thing that anyone can spend time on. There's a reason that mode doesn't have more than a paragraph of rules that aren't precise. Personally I'd be fine with someone running 15 trukks with a wave serpent as warlord but maybe that's not the same for you guys.
Samules is offline  
post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 05:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Sworn Radical's Avatar
Sworn Radical's Flag is: Germany
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Heavily Spanking Saint Celestine
Posts: 721
Reputation: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samules View Post
I think analyzing the exact rules wording on the shits and giggles with friends mode is probably the most useless thing that anyone can spend time on.
Agreed. In this case, analyzing isn't even needed though. Being able to read should clearby be enough.

Quote:
There's a reason that mode doesn't have more than a paragraph of rules that aren't precise.
Exactly. There is no need for any more words. It is pretty precise though.

Quote:
Personally I'd be fine with someone running 15 trukks with a wave serpent as warlord but maybe that's not the same for you guys.
Nope, not really. I adore people that are able to enjoy such a stupid game, but in my book (and that of my gaming circle) it simply wouldn't feel 'right'.
Of course, that, as well as everything else, is an entirely subjective preference.

40k Armies: Dark Eldar / Adepta Sororitas
WHFB Armies: Vampire Counts / Empire / various Elves
Horus Heresy: Alpha Legion / Warp Cult
Sworn Radical is offline  
 
post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-27-14, 11:06 PM
Senior Member
 
The Irish Commissar's Avatar
The Irish Commissar's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Meath, Ireland
Posts: 716
Reputation: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sworn Radical View Post
'Certain units have the option of selecting a Dedicated Transport vehicle ... '
Exactly they have an option, not an upgrade of selecting it as a transport
An option isn't an upgrade it's a choice at least that's how I look at it.

6th Edition. 7th Edition

Eldar. Eldar
W14-D1-L4. W2-D0-L0

Imperial guard
W3-D2-L1

Space marine's
W0-D0-L0
The Irish Commissar is offline  
post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-14, 12:02 AM
Senior Member
 
King Gary's Avatar
King Gary's Flag is: Wales
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea
Posts: 343
Reputation: 6
Default

This whole discussion is why they've brought in the Unbound armies option.

It's not about adding a whole new list of rules, it's about removing restrictions. Unbound armies to me (and i think a lot of players, particularly the older ones here will agree) is about being a bit more free to come up with interesting ideas for scenarios or army lists. Using another race's DTs sounds like an awesome idea, so does finding your SM army has just come accross the annual howling banshee convention whilst out on a recon mission, or your orks have intercepted an Astra Millitarum attilery column being guarded by 250 lowly conscripts or... It's just about creating "what if?" scenarios. It's about freeing players to come up with their own set of house rules with their regular opponents, it is not about competitive play.

The spirit of the rules does not seem to be about finally being able to spam out a narrow selection of units inorder to win every game in 2 turns. That sort of shit would get very boring VERY quickly. For everyone involved. And players who insist on playing those armies are going to find themselves short of opponents willing to play against them. All this talk of having someone spring a killer combo on you out of nowhere, play against it once, then just ask if they have an allternative list or ask for a rematch but swapping armies. Also (this doesn't seem to have been mentioned allready) i doubt any tournament is going to be allowing unbound armies any time soon and even when they do there's going to be a LONG list of custom restrictions.

Free your minds young ones, step away from the rules and your desire to find out who's better at finding exploits in the rules and remember what it was like to have fun playing the hobby you love. (Or just continue to play against opponents using the FOC if that's your bag).

My Complete DA collection


That's me breathing fire in my avatar, my aim was a bit off to start but i got all those orks in the end!
King Gary is offline  
post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-14, 09:18 AM
Where is Jessica Hyde?
 
humakt's Avatar
humakt's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,182
Reputation: 30
Default

What King Gary said, exactly what he said. Who cares if the codex says you can't take thing a if you have not already taken thing b. If thing a will be fun to use then go for it. Plus the fact a whole army of DT will be pretty poor. Even the mighty wave serpent all on its own would be mediocre compared to a battle forged army. There are only so many glancing hits you can take before you explode.

Your toast has been burnt and no amount of scraping will get rid of the black bits.
humakt is offline  
post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-14, 07:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Sethis's Avatar
Sethis's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Alston, Cumbria
Posts: 4,190
Reputation: 58
Default

Which is why I asked about the type of thing he was wanting to play. If with a mate, doesn't matter. But if you went up to a random in the FLGS and said "Unbound game?" And they said "Yep" then they might question the by-the-book legality of how you came up with it, regardless of competitiveness. Avoiding that questioning (and potential disagreement over interpretation) is all we're trying to resolve.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
Sethis is offline  
post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-14, 09:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,685
Reputation: 10
Default

To me it seems like unbound is a mini apoc option. I'm fine with this actually apoc is one of my favorite games to play, however the scale of it means that playing often isn't an option. Having the chance to play 2000 point bring whatever games is awesome.
Reaper45 is offline  
post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-14, 10:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Samules's Avatar
Samules's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern San Jose
Posts: 1,287
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
Which is why I asked about the type of thing he was wanting to play. If with a mate, doesn't matter. But if you went up to a random in the FLGS and said "Unbound game?" And they said "Yep" then they might question the by-the-book legality of how you came up with it, regardless of competitiveness. Avoiding that questioning (and potential disagreement over interpretation) is all we're trying to resolve.
I don't think it's really possible to do this due to the scope of unbound. You have to ask power list, theme list or silly list at least; a mixed matchup won't be much fun. Plus they literally do not specify if "whatever units from your collection" removes only FOC and single-codex but also specific rules like dedicated transports or unique characters (Ghazgul Thraka and his 6 twins would like a word wif you). It looks to me that in the spirit of unbound they never will. That's just something you have to sort out with your opponent. Just like deciding what is a scoring unit in an army without troops choices. Personally I'd say if you have a model, find the closest codex entry and use its points cost.
Samules is offline  
post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-14, 11:46 PM
Senior Member
 
King Gary's Avatar
King Gary's Flag is: Wales
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea
Posts: 343
Reputation: 6
Default

If it's a complete random opponent then I'd just say, i'll play whatever, but we play two consecutive games - where we play each others lists. You don't need to see the list before deciding then. If the other guy refuses (without a decent reason) then you know something fishy's going on.

EDIT: or talk with your FLGS owner about coming up with a set of house rules. A simple couple of rules might be all the models have to be represented by the actual model in unbound lists. -

If you've got 10 Gazgull Thrakkas then god speed to you. You've got 10 boyz that you're calling Gazgull? Not a chance.

You've actually got 15 swave serpents? Cool. You got 2 wave serpents, 3 falcons, 5 leman russes and 5 small shoe boxes? Then you play with the ten tanks that you actually own

The other rule, which i like a lot is you only use your oppnents list, and they use yours.

My Complete DA collection


That's me breathing fire in my avatar, my aim was a bit off to start but i got all those orks in the end!

Last edited by King Gary; 05-28-14 at 11:56 PM.
King Gary is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > General 40k

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome