Best Close Combat Armies? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
General 40k This is the place to talk about everything related to Warhammer 40k.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-14-14, 04:03 AM
Entropy Fetishist
 
Mossy Toes's Avatar
Mossy Toes's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eä
Posts: 4,249
Reputation: 117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keen4e View Post
I humbly disagree. While it is true MC points must be stripped to 0, it is on the other hand much easier then for vehicles, because even the basic weapons can take them down. I am talking about T6 MC not T8, but I don't think a T8 flying MC exists. Sure if you need 6 to hit it's a bit inconvenient, but if you saturate it properly it will fall on the ground and once in there, that's basically it. Vehicles on the other hand can't be saturated by low S shots and need at least S6 or S7 to be brought down.
Sure vehicles can be disabled with one lucky shot, but what matters here are the averages. I haven't done any detailed analysis of that, but intuitively my guess would be that vehicles don't fair that bad compared to MC, unless they of course have low (10 or 11) armor in which case it's clear which one is better.
I was kinda talking about MCs in general when I said "up to T8"--aka a Wraithknight--but in that context, yeah, I really didn't make it clear. But a T8 wraithknight only being wounded by plasma on 5s, or a Riptide's 2+ save shrugging off all but the lowest AP weapons with impunity... those are tough barriers to overcome in close combat or at range.

My experience playing for the past two years has overwhelmingly been that MCs are more valuable than tanks. Let's say that a tank and an MC are about as durable as each other--the MC will still trump a tank nearly every time a tank vs MC duel goes down. Blame the Smash rule, if you like. It's hard to crunch the numbers, definitely--this sort of general blanket statement is definitely too ambiguous for straight-up Mathhammer.

And who knows, with Guard (sorry, Militarum) we'll probably see artillery-spam and armor-spam lists coming back in force. For a while, at least.

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
Mossy Toes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-20-14, 06:04 PM
Ranty ranter!
 
MetalHandkerchief's Avatar
MetalHandkerchief's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,262
Reputation: 6
Default

Dark Eldar seems to be the only army I can reliably get into CQC, though I never relied on Deep Strike or reinforcements for that anyway. Small 5 man squads of Wyches and Incubi (I know, the latter aren't the most cost effective, this is for normal games) in 9 Venoms and two large Wych squads in boats.

The only thing I use webway portals for these days are Talos, which I don't use that often.

That said, people around here tend to like close combat too, and are equally trying to get into fisticuffs. So only a few guys around here have shooty armies with enough shooty bits to stop me, and they don't usually do so, at least not the majority of the time (SM/ Eldar)

I've had recurring nightmares
That I was loved for who I am
And missed the opportunity
To become a better man
~MUSE - Hoodoo

Last edited by MetalHandkerchief; 04-20-14 at 06:07 PM.
MetalHandkerchief is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-20-14, 09:34 PM
Rattlehead
 
MidnightSun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Sheoth
Posts: 6,741
Reputation: 83
Default

My Orks always get into combat. Every game.

How many get into combat is another matter.

I think that Knights and Guard mean Meltas are going to make at least a minor comeback.

Creator of Utilitarian Ultramarines Memes - join the XIII on Facebook (no XVII allowed).
MidnightSun is offline  
 
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-24-14, 01:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Ravner298's Avatar
Ravner298's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,087
Reputation: 1
Default

Daemons are the obvious answer because the ruleset blatently favors fmc.

they're swooping....but the model is behind that building so you can't shoot them.

they're in the air, but their toe is in area terrain so they get a cover save.

they can dive and still assault.

They have a 360 firing arc + vectors.

Unlike vehicles, their efficiency isn't diminished when taking fire. They're still 100% effective on their last wound.

Speaking for daemons, the ability to get IWND, fnp, iron arm, etc greatly increases their survivability in comparison to other mcs in the game. (Speaking of, an iron arm dp can reach t8.)

Until they're toned down a little, it's hard to argue a better cc unit.
Ravner298 is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-24-14, 02:01 PM
Herald of The Warp
 
Nordicus's Avatar
Nordicus's Flag is: Denmark
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 2,752
Reputation: 143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravner298 View Post
they're in the air, but their toe is in area terrain so they get a cover save.
I keep forgetting this. Goddamnit.
Nordicus is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-24-14, 02:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Ravner298's Avatar
Ravner298's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,087
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicus View Post
I keep forgetting this. Goddamnit.

Because it's illogical. Don't beat yourself up for thinking realistically.
Ravner298 is offline  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-25-14, 05:22 AM
Entropy Fetishist
 
Mossy Toes's Avatar
Mossy Toes's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eä
Posts: 4,249
Reputation: 117
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravner298 View Post

they're in the air, but their toe is in area terrain so they get a cover save.
I keep forgetting this too. Hell, I've probably been playing differently with my roommates. Shit. And with, say, a Nurgle Daemon Prince... ugh.

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
Mossy Toes is offline  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-25-14, 05:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Ravner298's Avatar
Ravner298's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,087
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
I keep forgetting this too. Hell, I've probably been playing differently with my roommates. Shit. And with, say, a Nurgle Daemon Prince... ugh.

That's be of the biggest reasons to use nurgle over the others....is the built in shrouded!
Ravner298 is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-25-14, 08:55 AM
Herald of The Warp
 
Nordicus's Avatar
Nordicus's Flag is: Denmark
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 2,752
Reputation: 143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravner298 View Post
That's be of the biggest reasons to use nurgle over the others....is the built in shrouded!
That and with a lucky mix of greater gifts he can become one of the most evil daemon princes out there; AP2, Fleshbane, Instant Death.

You'd have to be REALLY lucky on your rolls though, but it IS possible!
Nordicus is offline  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-01-14, 08:25 PM
Senior Member
 
NathanJD's Avatar
NathanJD's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 268
Reputation: 6
Default Best Close Combat Armies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravner298 View Post
Because it's illogical. Don't beat yourself up for thinking realistically.


I don't find this to be illogical at all. Have you ever seen an eagle or other large bird flying through a forest? And I'm talking flying FAST. It's insane that they don't hit anything but... they don't. What's to stop a naturally flying born creature from swooping 5 feet off the ground through trees, ruins, etc?

A Wraithknight with his toe in tall grass however... That better be some damn tall grass.

Last edited by NathanJD; 05-02-14 at 01:46 AM.
NathanJD is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > General 40k

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome