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post #81 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-08-14, 03:54 PM
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Honestly I play tau and my arse feels a bit on the roomy side...
I think the riptide is a badass model and I really want to use it... However it's not fun to use, for anyone involved and people give me rather dirty looks as I bring out even one of them

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post #82 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-08-14, 04:19 PM
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errrrgh.

Time warp me back to when 3rd Ed. came out.
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post #83 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-08-14, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mokuren View Post
Which is why I'm waiting for Imperial Guard's new codex to arrive. I've got enough sisters as it is, and allies are the only thing preventing me from shelving them once and for all, but I need to know if expanding on IG is going to be worthwhile or yet another punch in the dick, like with Sisters and Inquisition.

If that too fails, it might be a good moment to start Chaos myself, since the deals actually save money (!!!). Yes, I'll still get punched in the junk, but at least I'll be playing with models that came out after 1994.
To be honest I haven't played 40k for a long time (for several months). Though I am thinking of going back to 4th edition.
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post #84 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-08-14, 06:39 PM
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Honestly I play tau and my arse feels a bit on the roomy side...
I think the riptide is a badass model and I really want to use it... However it's not fun to use, for anyone involved and people give me rather dirty looks as I bring out even one of them
Seriously? Those people suck. Come to San Antonio and my gaming group will let you run whatever the hell you want, as long as your points total the proper amount and you're not exceeding the FoC slots.
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post #85 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-10-14, 09:10 AM
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I'm quite looking forward to the ork codex whenever that finally comes out, as well as some schemes around space marines and space wolves.

Very tempted with the awesomeness of knights though.



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post #86 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-10-14, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! View Post
Honestly I play tau and my arse feels a bit on the roomy side...
I think the riptide is a badass model and I really want to use it... However it's not fun to use, for anyone involved and people give me rather dirty looks as I bring out even one of them
Even better because Riptides, just as a unit, are not particularly good.

If my opponent brought out two Riptides, I'd probably sigh in relief. If he followed them up with 30 Pathfinders, THEN I'd be sad.
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post #87 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-13-14, 07:41 PM
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Farseer - the first part of my post explains that.
You say GW is damaging the "soul", but my contention was that this isn't particularly concrete, which is why I asked why these features you mention (quoted below) were comparatively better.

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My imagination always flies back to late 80s/early 90s red-bladed power swords, red boltguns, Epic scale Eldar Titans, grimy skaven clashing with overly-silver dwarves, 40k Hero-hammer, 5 unit only Fantasy Khorne Daemon armies, the army-breaking Leman Russ Demolisher, garish Eldar Aspect colour schemes, the Joker-style grin on the face of the first Hive Tyrant, DOOMRIDER, Ahriman's lascannon spell, the original Rhinos and Predators, Necromunda and other specialist games, 'Fat Bloke' + Space Mcquirck + Andy Chambers + Pete Haines + etc.... the list is almost endless.
Apologies if this wasn't made clear in my first post. Listing older features, then simply saying the "soul" is gone from today's game, is not a concrete comparison, which is why I was keen for you to outline what it is exactly (apart from this abstract "soul" business) that's wrong with GW today. I'll refer you back to my first post:

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Humans are naturally adverse to change, we remember the past as being better because it was known and understood, unlike an ever-changing present. I can't help but feel that by listing "old" things you're indulging in nostalgia, not impartially comparing GW "then" and GW "now".

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post #88 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-13-14, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Farseer Darvaleth View Post
You say GW is damaging the "soul", but my contention was that this isn't particularly concrete, which is why I asked why these features you mention (quoted below) were comparatively better.



Apologies if this wasn't made clear in my first post. Listing older features, then simply saying the "soul" is gone from today's game, is not a concrete comparison, which is why I was keen for you to outline what it is exactly (apart from this abstract "soul" business) that's wrong with GW today. I'll refer you back to my first post:
Sorry, Farseer - my initial response was a little belligerent.

You say it's more of a nostalgic element to my feelings, and yes - upon more thought, I reckon that is the case.

As much as I enjoy the progress the likes of 'Eavy Metal has made, I do feel that they have lost something in their bid to increase the realism of the appearance of models, etc.

I'm going to be really vague and cite a cartoon I used to watch when I was about 3 - Animals of Farthing Wood. It has a charm about it (even now) that is lost in more modern CGI cartoons. Which, although visually more up to date and modern, just lack that 'thing', something I cannot word.

I feel GW has done the same, somewhere in the mid-00's, they lost that part of themselves. And I honestly cannot word what it is. So I will settle with your suggestion that it is my nostalgia.

sorry again for the short answer before, dude!
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post #89 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-13-14, 10:44 PM
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Sorry, Farseer - my initial response was a little belligerent.

You say it's more of a nostalgic element to my feelings, and yes - upon more thought, I reckon that is the case.

As much as I enjoy the progress the likes of 'Eavy Metal has made, I do feel that they have lost something in their bid to increase the realism of the appearance of models, etc.

I'm going to be really vague and cite a cartoon I used to watch when I was about 3 - Animals of Farthing Wood. It has a charm about it (even now) that is lost in more modern CGI cartoons. Which, although visually more up to date and modern, just lack that 'thing', something I cannot word.

I feel GW has done the same, somewhere in the mid-00's, they lost that part of themselves. And I honestly cannot word what it is. So I will settle with your suggestion that it is my nostalgia.

sorry again for the short answer before, dude!
Don't worry, as I recall you had another member to answer as well so I understand the brevity!

Thank you for your response, and I'm glad you can admit it's nostalgia. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all - I'm certainly not able to look at things purely objectively (hence preferring puppet Yoda to CGI ball of plasma Yoda!).

My issue is with people who say, purely objectively (and they make a point of professing their impartiality) that GW has got substantially worse, with all elements of nostalgia and that "thing" (and I do understand what you mean by that) set aside. They try and dress opinion as fact. After all, at the end of the day everybody has their own preference, and if they feel GW has lost something then nobody can (or should) tell them otherwise. The reason I pressed for a concrete answer is because I have yet to find a purely objective, impartial "worsening" of GW. People confuse this with personal preference too often from what I've seen (which admittedly is limited).

But then I suppose a subject so broad as the highly diverse output of a company in an exciting, innovative industry is hardly ever going to have an objective answer either way, so perhaps my question was foolish!

As for that "thing", could it be explained by the dehumanisation of GW? As it has grown it has thrown off its humbler past, and the face of individuals is more subsumed by the corporate whole. Now it has to really push sales rather than tactical articles or modelling tutorials, or just columns to chat about the hobby, in White Dwarf. It feels less like something we're all involved in with GW, and more like something GW is selling us. The business has grown larger and larger - the difference between a school play where you know the lead role, and seeing something at the West End where even the stage-hands could outstrip everyone in that school play you fondly remember. Or the difference between a live performance and a CD, where live the audience is part of the experience, the performers give something extra, something different for that particular audience, and everybody knows how hard the music is and how much pressure is on the lead soloist not just to play it correctly, but beautifully - whereas the CD is probably the result of a hundred retakes, each little embellishment well-planned out in advance, and no human face for the listener to latch on to. Maybe these examples are over the top, or even irrelevant, but that's how I personally feel GW has lost that "thing" that many people either skirt around or directly cite but fail to describe - it became too successful.

And, in part, surely that's our fault? The reason they don't create all this content aimed at the player-base is because we make our own: you need only google "Space Marine tactics" to see what I mean. Indeed, the "hobby" side is over saturated by our own content as the industry grew - GW can't afford to spend valuable resources, especially in today's economic climate, on something that is made for free by the players already. Their name is big enough that they can't produce those more "human" columns - they can't afford you to know the main actor (to borrow from my earlier analogy). All that's left for them to do is exactly what we cannot - the production of models, and assorted supporting merchandise, to let us play the games. That's where their money goes, and that's where their money comes from. Because they were so popular with us, the playerbase, they had to change to support this wider audience - staying the same would've led to a drop in demand after it is continually not met, and expanding with the same character would've been unsustainable. We commercialised GW because we liked it too much.

(Just a mad theory!)

Give a man a match, and he's warm for a day.

Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life!

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post #90 of 127 (permalink) Old 03-14-14, 08:33 AM
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Not denying GW has been pumping out lots of stuff.

It's just that it's not the stuff I was looking forward to, and the parts I can use (Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition) were ludicrously overpriced copypasta jokes.

So, no, I'm not a happy bunny. As for the rest of the game, I can live with having to deal with AV 15 and Strength D weapons at 1500 points, but what I feel are the biggest problems of this edition have never been addressed by any of the supplements, new releases or whatnot. Dare I say they have been made worse at times.
I have been away from the game for a few months. AV 15?

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