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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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Default Competitive vs Cooperative (Some of advice needed)

Ok; I know this is an old argument but there is some advice I need.

My best friend is just starting to get back into the game. And I have played on and off for some time. Here is the thing; he is an old 4th edition professional, meaning that he is super competitive. Not in the sense that he uses super cheese, but in the fact that he only wants to win.

Here is the problem I play games only for fun. I never play to win if itís not something important. 40k is no exception. How can we play together? I assume that errata is always in action, he says it must be stated beforehand. I ask that we roll on things we are unsure of; he states, if that is the case he does not want to play.

I want to play with him (phrasing), but I am unsure how to reconcile these issues...

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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 09:58 AM
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It does sound like your gaming styles are in exact opposition to each other but there is normally a way around this. But he does sound pretty flexible about these things. Personally I would just play him in his own style and bring a fun list. Advise him you don't play to win and just see what happens. He is missing the point of 6th edition if he plays as if its super slimmed down 4th edition.

As for rolling off, that's been the standard way of resolving in game differences since 4th edition so he should be used to using this method of resolution. Its worth bearing in mind that a more perminant clarification of rules should be found after the game and the roll off is really intended to bypass in game issues so they don't cause a problem.

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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 04:48 PM
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I agree with humakt. If he wants to win at all costs, and you just want to play for fun, do it his way.
After a couple of games, don't you think that he'll realize that it's no fun playing that competitively against his best friend? IMO, he should save that stuff for the tournaments! Whipping strangers is much more rewarding
I hate strangers..
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-21-14, 09:14 AM
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most of my friends played like that.
they would tell you that they didn't but they did.
they would move their orks just a little bit more than they should, every turn,
and i would ask them to measure every model from that point on, because i was tired of it...
they would field anything that killed you and nothing just because it looked cool or fit a theme.
things got better when more detailed missions and better objectives and so on were introduced in subsequent versions (we started in 2nd ed, and things actually got worse from there imo).
this 6th ed. i am unsure of, as i have not had time to study the rules and am myself only now returning after 10yrs + away from the gaming table.
for me, the fun was always in modeling, painting, imagining the stories, setting up the terrain and missions and plots and so on - basically community and narrative constructively manufactured in a spirit of friendship.
and, when the group that i had around me couldn't grow into these aspects of the game, i basically quit playing, and just did the other stuff on my own for the most part.

in my life, i am not sure of much, but i do know this.
one can operate competitively under a cooperative umbrella (your style)
or one can operate cooperatively under a competitive umbrella (his style - after all, the irony is that he needs your cooperation to be uber-competitive, placing competition above all else...).

i go for the former, and tolerated the latter, but eventually it just wore me down.
not to mention that a couple of rules revisions from gw weren't helping matters - i don't recall the exact versions, been so long now, but the game went from every model counting, model line of sight counting, terrain scale and so on counting, to none of that making a difference, rewarding sloppy aggressive playing styles and skim-an-inch attitudes.

by the way, for those in the know, how does 6th edition stack up here?
is it ma more patient rules set permissive of more thoughtful play and crafted meta-discourse?
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 02-26-14, 08:41 PM
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In my experience 6th can be just as frustrating as 4th ever was.
I played a game on the weekend against the new nid's My list was as uncompetative as it's possible for Guard to be as I just used the clubs army and a few necromunda models I had to fill out the points, The game was mine after 4 dice rolls, Mission, table edge ,and setting up longways plus going first. The Nid's were blown of the table by turn 3 admittedly his Tyrant gave him a negative modifier to reserves so did my astropath which kept a significant portion of his army off the table until it was too late but the game lacked the story driven cinematic events that make games stand out and it was less a valiant last stand of the guard more an excercise of reloading.
Fantasy also has the same problems were random missions can ruin the flow of a game and determine the outcome before a dice is rolled.

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