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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-29-14, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jdojo18 View Post
I also hope that Monstrous creatures need to be covered 25% just like vehicles tog et a cover save. None of this "his foot is in the forest therefore I get a save" bs.
Ooooh yes, that's one, certainly.

Assaulting out of transports... might make Rhinos a possible choice to take again, yes. I am hesitant to say assaulting from outflanking should be permitted, as great as that would be for my assaulty armies--shooting armies would be too damned powerless against an enemy that is impossible to ever shoot, aside from one Overwatch.

Hmm, yes warp charge and psykers could definitely use some simplification... simplification that might well allow generation of warp charge the turn one comes into play.

I can't help but feel that vehicles could use some sort of "native save" of some sort above any beyond simply an AV, to make them slightly tougher--a 5+ chance to ignore glances or something. I know that invuln has made my Daemon Engines much more rewarding to play, compared to the non-Daemonic vehicles I've run--you feel slightly less powerless in just accepting all these glances and pens. How this would stack with cover and invulns for vehicles is, of course... up to interpretation. Presumably you could only take one.

But I do agree with the sentiment expressed in some places here that certain codex tweaks are needed more than major rulebook tweaks.

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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-29-14, 06:04 PM
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Just get rid of jink full stop, it's stupid that vehicles should have a carry around cover save. Flyers esspeacially, the buggers are hard enough to hit without jink!
But overall this edition is the codexs at fault, and overall they could be reasonably easy to fix if gw just got off of their arse!

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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-30-14, 09:24 PM
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What would I like to see? A change back to run and assault from fleet. That would actually allow for a competitive new codex non-MC spam list.
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-31-14, 05:53 PM
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An initiative test to overwatch? That would completely invalidate tau with 1 fell swoop.

Mcs die rather quickly to flakk fire. I don't think vindicators need the option to chunk them. The way they receive cover needs to be looked at, as does the fmc crap where they're 'behind' that building out of Los and yet still considered swooping. That irks me.

The allies system needs some sort of overhaul because the most broken combos in the game are directly related to mixing and cherry picking.

2++ rerollable needs to burn. Make the reroll a 4 or 5+. Not a 2+/2+.

Not a big fan of challenge spam tarpits. Keeping a daemon prince or abbadon killing 1 model a turn for several turns is pants.
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 02:36 AM
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An initiative test to overwatch? That would completely invalidate tau with 1 fell swoop.
Not if there was some sort of gear that improved your chances. Also it's not like the only time they shoot is during overwatch...

I really like the fantasy shooting rules, and think cover should be like that, though moving and, for some weapons, long range, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I also like the fantasy AS rules better (no APs, just strength, as wouldn't a missile launcher be more likely to punch through terminators than a lasgun?) but I get why it's not that.

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 11:59 PM
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Simple tweaks.

Close Combat:

CC needs rebalancing. Charge Range needs sorting. Either make it D6+6" inches for charges or make it the flat 6 again. My preference is the latter because Fleet would allow Assault after running again, frankly flat 6 never needed changing and 12" for beasts is perfectly fine.

Related to this, CC needs Assault from Transports and Outflank again. Shooting needed Over-watch to stop rofl-stomping from transports. It got that. CC didn't need to lose assaulting from transports.

General Changes:

Allies: Allies now share the FOC and you select which HQ is the Primary army. This helps curb silly power-combos where Armies like CSM/BL and Tau/Farsight which work because they abuse the extra slots.

Flyers - Need to occupy the force organization with their own slot, with a maximum of 2 per army imo; transports that fly should be treated as skimmers.

Monstrous Creatures - Need 25% to get cover save. FMC's grounded test when wounded, not hit.

A few other tweaks, but its late and I'll get back to you.

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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 12:55 AM
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Section 1 is my serious contribution to this thread, read that, section 2 is my less serious take on what needs to be changed.


Section 1
I've said this before 6th came out. They need to change the weapon skill chart to make it more beneficial when units have incredibly high weapon skill. At this moment in time, something with WS 1 at min has a 33% chance to hit a something else in close combat even if it is out matched by a close combat monster. Said monsters have the max chance of 66% chance of hitting in close combat even when they overwhelmingly out match their opponent in close combat.

Let me give you an example. The Swarmlord, one of the Universe's most lethal close combat warrior, against a Gretchin, one of the Universe's most pathetic close combat warriors, gains no real benefit from the fact he has a massive advantage in WS. He only has 1/3rd more of a chance of hitting the sniveling little wretches in close combat. No matter how many wars and battles this creature has been through. How many great champions it has dueled with and won, dueled with a died. All the experience it has earned through out the ages in the art of dealing death in close quarters, it can still get whacked much easier than you think by a gretchin with a rent-a-wrench.

Higher weapon skills should be beneficial. Several things can be done,

1, Give them the fabled 2+ that ballistic skill has. Something that good in combat just shouldn't miss 1/3 of the time. Its just absurd. Hell go one further and make it swing both ways, something with WS 3 against something with WS 8 should hit on a 6+.

2, Or, give them re-rolls. These warriors spend hours perfecting their art of dealing death up close and personal. They practice so hard that the idea of them missing against an inferior combatant should be an alien concept to them.

3, Or, give them invulnerable saves against other close combat attacks based on how much better their weapon skill is. Give them a parry/dodge/weave save. A basic terminator with thunderhammer is going to be much more clumsy than a great duelist like Lucius of the Emperor's children. Lucius would easily be able to weave away from a hurtling hammer. A Bloodthirster would easily be able to bat away a power weapon from a less skilled opponent.

The weapon skill chart is easily the weakest part of the rules system fundamentally as it doesnt scale properly with attributes.

Section 2

Finally, a whine list:
1, Write the new book from the perspective of the Tyranids.

2,Stop writing rule-books that revolve around Space Marines. Xenos in general really get shafted with new rules.
Secondly, dont write a rule-book for Space Marines, then let them trump the rules they dont like. Reserves on turn 1 are absolute rubbish.

3,(Selfish just for Nids change) remove Hammer and Anvil or change the deployment set up. I currently have to spend 2 turns running across no man's land with 6" move and having to decide whether to fire back with my crappy ranged units and whittle down the fire power coming at me or run a random distance while trying to survive another round of firing.

4, Make Psychic shooting easier, I have a lengthy response to this that I will post later, but to sum it up
4.1, Everything shouldn't be able to use the ability. A flat 6+ which can only get better is a major pain in the ass.
4.2, Projectile withfire powers should not be denied because it doesn't make sense that balls of destruction vanish into thin air just because some guy believes "if it isn't real it cant hurt me!"
4.3, Some tweaks to the rule can be made. Only other psychers can deny. Maybe introduce denial bubbles like shadow in the warp.

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Last edited by Igni Ferroque; 02-02-14 at 01:50 AM.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 03:09 AM
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I really like those weapon skill changes and agree that things are a little ludicrous.

I mostly don't have a problem with psychic powers, but I suppose it could be argued that most powers aren't so obscenely powerful that 2 rolls must be passed to pop them off successfully (Ld check, Deny the Witch). Looking forward to the more in-depth response, on that account.

I agree with a few other suggestions on this thread. Too bad no one with the power to implement them will never read this thread.


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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 03:12 AM
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I think benefits for CC are good. I agree, if something has been practicing the art for war for hundreds of years, they should be able to hit more accurately than a gretchin. However, I would say that hitting something on a 6+ would be too much of a boost. Lower weapon skills ticking with a 5+ is fine I think and here's why:

1. If there is a squad of 5 heavily armed and CC specialized marines/bugs/daemons/whatever against 20 or 30 smaller troops, the smaller troops shouldn't have a problem hitting them with an axe since they are so close and the frenzy of close combat fighting makes it hard to dodge when you are surrounded on all sides. That goes double for MCs. They are so huge that you couldn't possibly miss.

2. The unit is already being protected from being wounded by disallowing other units to shoot at it while it is in combat. If it can't be shot at and you can only be hit by 6s in CC, then what can hit you? Especially if you manage to get into combat by turn two.

But I agree, I think heavy CC units should hit a little more accurately. I hate watching my Warboss roll those 1s and 2s.

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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 09:18 AM
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I like the idea of adjustment to the WS chart.
As with instant death for double strength over toughness, why not a simple plus one to hit on the weapon skills chart if you have double your opponents weapon skill. It shows that your opponent is outclassed enough to provide a better chance of hitting him but keep the 5+ for them hitting you back.

I think it would be too big a change to have hitting on 6+ routinely for some. I reckon it is important that the heroic humble trooper/ork/bug can still make a difference and be able to hit back.

Last edited by Lanfear; 02-02-14 at 01:29 PM.
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