If you were running Pre/Mid-Heresy 1k Sons... what codex? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Default If you were running Pre/Mid-Heresy 1k Sons... what codex?

So, ignoring the eventual FW release for the unbalanced pile of used mastubatory tissue paper that their rules always represent... When running a Pre- or Mid- Heresy Thousand Sons army list, who are the contenders?

Codex: Chaos Space Marines

- Good for "Mid-Heresy" through use of Boon of Mutation/Spawn/Prince to represent random squad members starting to mutate.

- Cheap Level 3 Sorcerors

- Cultists to represent Prosperine Spireguard, or Allies of Convenience with IG.

- Large infantry units with both melee and ranged weapons helps represent the more foot-based atmosphere of the 31st Millenium

Downsides: Large numbers of ill-fitting units for almost pure Loyalists such as Heldrake, Apostles, Daemons etc. Marks are pretty useless as well. Only psychic powers are in HQ slots. No Divination.

Codex: Space Marines

- Completely loyalist list, no "counts as" problems.

- ATSKNF, Grav Guns and other toys like the Storm Raven. Best Terminators/Raiders etc.

- BB with IG for Prosperine Spireguard

Downsides: Fairly boring, with no "interesting" units to distinguish them. Chapter Tactics don't really suit 1k Sons. No Psychic Powers except in HQs, and no Divination.

Codex: Space Wolves

Say what? Consider:

- 4 Rune Priests (Magi) with Divination access

- CCWs and Bolters represents Fluff better

- Mark of the Wulfen for Possession

- Banner of the Wolf represents tutelaries/mini daemons guiding their Marines

- BB with IG for Spireguard

Downsides: Well, they're Space Wolves, people would probably take the piss. Lots of units that don't make sense e.g. Fenrisian Wolves, Thunderwolves, etc.

Codex: Grey Knights

- Everything is Psychic

- Henchmen for Spireguard/IG Allies of Convenience

- Lots of flexibility for unit types, Paladins as Scarab Occult, sexy Librarian powers, Psycannons and Psilencers represented by magical fire etc.

Downsides: No BB allies, everything has a PW/SB which is very counter-fluff, some units and characters make no sense (Inquisitors, Dreadknights etc). Hammerhand isn't very Thousand Sons-ish.

So if you had to make a choice, what codex would you use and why? Do you have any cool ideas as to what can be represented by certain units that I haven't considered? Here are some things I'd like to think about using:

- Hidden Ones (Sly Marbo? Callidus Assassin?)
- Scarab Occult elites (Wolf Guard? Paladins?)
- Tutelaries (Actual units of Daemons? Wargear?)
- Flesh Changed (Possession, Wulfen...?)
- Legio Cybernetica (Centurions? Sentinels?)
- Cults i.e. Corvidae, Pyrae, Pavoni, Raptora (Purgation squads? Purifiers? Sternguard?)
- Prospero Spireguard (IG? Cultists? Henchmen?)

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 12:24 PM
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Your thinking to literally
Helldrakes make perfect sense, they could be sone flyer or one of their 'minion' things
Storm bolters could easily be bolters but psyed up to be more awesome
Fenrisian wolves could be more minions
ETC
You could do anything with everything, it all makes sense

You could even use necrons as their fuses represents psyonic guns
Maybe 'crons would be post heresy as alternatives to their current rules as 'crons more represent their rubricness

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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It's less of a "Thinking too literally" thing and more of two main priorities I have when writing an army:

1. How closely does it follow the fluff? The closer, the better.

2. How confusing is it for my opponent? The less confusing, the better.

So yes, I could run (for example) a Heldrake as a previously unseen Imperial Flyer or a large Daemon summoned mid-to-late Heresy, but it isn't mentioned directly in the fluff anywhere (so there is no basis for including it in the list apart from competitiveness) and the model itself is unsuitable, which means I would have to proxy some other flyer as one (with appropriate representation of its weapons and special rules), which is one more thing my opponent needs to remember.

For the same reasons, Necrons go out the window - Fluff doesn't support Gauss or RP, and the models would be too confusing because they'd look like Marines but use Necron rules.

Thanks for the suggestions though!

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 01:13 PM
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I'd say that Grey Knights probably work best. You might want to choose a specific fellowship to run, like the Pyrae or Scarab Occult. You might be able to run two of them with allies rules. Like run Grey Knights as the allies with their Terminators as Scarab Occult and one of the better HQ options as Ahriman or even Magnus if you want to do so. You could run Dark Angels and take the Deathwing options to run Terminators as troops if you want to do Scarab Occult as well, also keep in mind that Pyrae might be best run by sternguard (Or similar) all with hand flamers.

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 02:08 PM
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This guy at my FLGS uses Codex: Grey Knights, which I think makes the most sense.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 05:56 PM
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I've always thought GKs would be as close as you could get loyalist wise until FW comes out with rules or any possibility of a T'Sons/Tzneetch supplement.

On an unrelated note that Plog is phenomenonal. Sad to hear that GW won't let him run this terminators.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-09-13, 08:43 PM
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If you're not TOTALLY against Forge World, you could mix Grey Knights with the new Red Hunters chapter. They are allowed to be Blood Brothers as long as you have an Inquisitor in the GK side. You could take Coteaz, which would let you ahve some Acolytes as Spireguard, then mix GK Terminators with Powered Armored space marines.


Honestly, GKs are the bst choice, I'd say. Everything can psyker out. Weaponry is nice, and psybolts could be like current Inferno Bolts. Force Weapons all around, and you could take real Librarians as well.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-10-13, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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@MidnightSun you're lucky to have that guy at your store lol, if you google "Pre-heresy 1k Sons" then he's something like the first 50 images that come up! Great work to be sure, but he's got a lot more cash to plow into it than I do!
@Loli Grey Knights are good for the Psychic stuff, but they're quite counter-fluff in that they have no access to regular weaponry like Meltaguns or Missile Launchers, although I hadn't actually considered allying GKs with another Marine book... Having a Libby and a squad of GK Termies/Pallies allied into a power armoured list would be a nice way to do it.
@Xabre I try to stay away from Forge World simply because you end up having to explain the rules to everyone you play against, and then when you win it's always because of "fucking Forgeworld is broken to hell" which is true in many cases. It'd be great if I could get Battle Brother GKs in with another codex, but I'm not sure how I'd represent an Inquisitor... maybe as a Human Psyker in 1k Sons livery as a kind of pupil to one of the Librarians a la Lemuel Gaumon?

90% of people think they are above average.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-10-13, 04:05 PM
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I agree with Midnight (wait, did I really just say that?!?!?! ), Grey Knights make the most sense.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-10-13, 05:58 PM
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Yeah, I remember when the GK codex first dropped T'Sons armies sprang up every where because of how readily available Psykers were.

As it is now you need to make a compromise because no codex will fit all the criteria for so it all comes down to which you prefer overall.

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