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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Default Is 40k too Ambitious in Scope?

Here's something that's been bothering me for a while: 40k as it is is basically a skirmish game, where one model equals one unit, and you often don't get more than 50-100 units on each side. And yet, GW seems to be trying to turn this into a full-scale battle game, with giant tanks, giant death robots, giant warplanes, etc and several hundred minis on each side. When I last posted this on DakkaDakka, people pointed out that 40k is meant to be the 'climax' of a battle, but why not simply make something like a Rapid Fire!-type game on a brigade level, or even something like WHFB?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 01:05 AM
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You mean they should make "Epic Armageddon" ?

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 01:09 AM
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The problem with 40Ks ambition is that it's a game for selling toys. Imagine it, at this point, like the Transformers cartoon from the 80s, lol. It's a show, sure, but it's a 30 minute ad for toys.

The problems started when it got away from a sci-fi game and became more of a fantasy game with sci fi elements. They seem to be trying to steer the train back to a shooting based sci-fi game (like it originally was), and give the "assault armies" the ability to shoot again (hence the BT getting rolled into C:SM), and I assume that will happen to the Nids and Orks too. But just when they are fixing the inherent nightmare that was trying to balance "assault armies" against "shooty armies" without forcing the assaulty armies to buy the hundreds of models it would take to accurately represent just how costly it is to charge across open terrain at people with rocket rifles and laser cannons, now they need to sell more models, so we've got Gundam 40K, and Yo Dawg Space Marines...

I like the direction 6th was going until I saw some of the new models, heh.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 01:17 AM
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For many years GW treated 40k as though it were either a skirmish or just a slice of a major battle. That your table top just represents one little piece of a larger engagement.

GW showed off the full scale of the game in Epic. Which was a really good game in and of itself. And it really fleshed out that macro combat level.

However GW probably realize that they couldn't sustain Epic ad it was after the release of 3rd ed because Epic still included such things as Squats.

And besides they could make a lot more money selling 40k models for use at Epic size battles as Apocalypse.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Blue View Post
40k as it is is basically a skirmish game,
Not really. Necromunda, Mordheim and Inquisitor were skirmish games, and they've been taken out the back and shot in the head.

As to the whole "one model = one unit" never fitted with 40k. In all editions each model has represented an individual character.

As to ambition, all GW have done is give gamers what they want (at great expense for us and huge profits for them). Gamers want huge tanks, fast planes and giant robots. So what have become the popular units in 6th Ed? Yup, you guessed it.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 01:54 PM
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I like the way GW have gone. You get to build up a small company size game and this will naturally lead onto the big games of Apoc.

The majority of the background books sometimes make no sense in scale though. I imagine millions of soldiers a side when fighting for a planet, not a company of marines vs 2 regiments of cultists.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 10:44 AM
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I really really miss Epic.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
I really really miss Epic.
I miss Space Marine! I still have a load of models on the origional square bases. No point playing it now though.

Your toast has been burnt and no amount of scraping will get rid of the black bits.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 02:42 PM
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I like it like it is. The differences in point values reflects how the battle feels. 300-500~ point value games are like how it would be if a few squads or soldiers were out on patrol, while 1,000-2,000 point games represent how battles would play out if small regiments or battle groups were to face each other. Anything larger is about apocalypse size, that features huge armies battling.
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