You brought three Heldrakes?! What a dick! - Page 5 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
General 40k This is the place to talk about everything related to Warhammer 40k.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 01:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Veteran Sergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SoCal, at the Beach
Posts: 328
Reputation: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Freak220
I think it should be complimented for a job well done and anyone who chooses to play that list should be thankful for the opportunity. .
Yeah, but this makes the flawed suggestion that finding the strongest units in the codex was going to be difficult, and that it wasn't going to just happen automatically. It doesn't take skill and talent to figure out what the best units are in any given army list. We're talking about a very limited number of variables at play.

It wasn't some genius who discovered three Helldrakes was awesome, or the quad-spammed Farsight allied Riptides was powerful.


Mathhammer is not calculus. It's not even pre-algebra. It's math on a level taught only a grade or two out of school days that included nap times.

If Marneus Calgar is supposed to be "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible, but the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

True Scale Space Marines: An odyssey in posing, tall scaling and other madness.

The Brief and Humorous History of the Horus Heresy
Veteran Sergeant is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 02:12 AM
Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
 
Jacobite's Avatar
Jacobite's Flag is: New Zealand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,082
Reputation: 63
Default

Give somebody a pat on the back for finding a math hammer list on the net? That's like like giving a teenager a high five for finding porn.
Jacobite is offline  
post #43 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 04:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Fallen's Avatar
Fallen's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,689
Reputation: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran sergeant View Post
mathhammer is not calculus. It's not even pre-algebra. It's math on a level taught only a grade or two out of school days that included nap times.
qft

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilbatte
if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
Fallen is offline  
 
post #44 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 04:24 AM
Senior Member
 
ntaw's Avatar
ntaw's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 6,323
Reputation: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
qft
I had to google that.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

40k Army Projects

Industrial Table WIP
ntaw is offline  
post #45 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Iron_Freak220's Avatar
Iron_Freak220's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,727
Reputation: 9
Default

That's not the point. The point is why the assumption that spamming strong codex units automatically makes you a dick? Why is always assumed that every player should play casual games?

I realize that not everyone feels that way, but whenever a comment is made about triple Heldrakes it is never about building competitive lists, at least not in a serious manner. It's more typically about being a cheese monster or an amateur.

Chaos Space Marines: Stay Spikey

Codex: The Ascended (Malice) WIP

Forging the Corruptor


Forum Formula Forever!

Iron_Freak220 is offline  
post #46 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 05:49 AM
ZOMGZOR CUSTOM USER TITLE
 
scscofield's Avatar
scscofield's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 6,195
Reputation: 56
Default

The game was/ is sold as models above rules, causal beer and pretzels style play. Having fun and doing something with a fun story behind it also has been the main selling point. Never has it been advertised as play the strongest spam list possible. Hence the 'your a dick' response in non tourny situations.

http://i.imgur.com/aPfHUHy.gif?1




scscofield is offline  
post #47 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 06:18 AM
blahblahblahblah
 
Stella Cadente's Avatar
Stella Cadente's Flag is: Zaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: blahblahblahblah
Posts: 6,663
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Freak220 View Post
If you were a general in the military, how would you feel if your commander in chief told you to utilize your wounded and sick just so that everyone in your command could be fielded?


Why is it that a strong general is ostricized for bringing strong units rather than lauded for building the strongest list his codex can make?


Does bringing the strongest units in your codex make you obsessed with Mathhammer?Does writing a list with the strongest units make you lazy?Does playing a list with the strongest units make you a bad general?

It seems like the answers to the three proceding questions are automatically assumed to be yes. I don't think that is fair. Sure, because of the internet, any player cab find a prebuilt strong list but someone had to come up with it originally. I think it should be complimented for a job well done and anyone who chooses to play that list should be thankful for the opportunity. Anyone who plays against it should consider it a challenge and adapt. Look to the armies in the Vietnam War for inspiration.
1: a real general does not choose his army, he is given an army under his command and must best utilize its strongest and weakest elements effectively, he is not given the best hardware in the world instantly.

2: your not a general fighting a battle, your not making life or death choices, your a gamer playing with toys in a ruleset that the designers have freely admitted hundreds of times is NOT a competitive ruleset but instead IS a narrative ruleset.

People complain because spamming powerful units to win goes entirely against the spirit of the written rules, in effect your breaking the rules, your not doing it for a narrative, or for fluff, or for a good fought game between two players, your doing it because YOU MUST WIN, YOU MUST HAVE FUN, fuck everyone else, fuck your opponent, you have no respect for them, so why give them the opportunity to enjoy the game


Last edited by Stella Cadente; 09-10-13 at 06:21 AM.
Stella Cadente is offline  
post #48 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 06:21 AM
Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
 
Jacobite's Avatar
Jacobite's Flag is: New Zealand
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,082
Reputation: 63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Freak220 View Post
That's not the point. The point is why the assumption that spamming strong codex units automatically makes you a dick? Why is always assumed that every player should play casual games?
Why is it assumed that you must always have the best list possible?

If you show up to a store for a drop in game with three Helldrakes you aren't wanting a casual game you're wanting to win at all costs. 99% of people know the power of them and if you are in the one % who don't after your first game you soon will. It doesn't take a genius to run them and win with them. Everybody knows this game has major balance issues, acknowledging them and then exploiting them is what makes you a dick. More so when you are using a combo that is well known to be over powered. I say again taking a list of the net that's proven by countless people to be highly effective and winning with it does not make you a good player.
Jacobite is offline  
post #49 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 07:59 AM
Rattlehead
 
MidnightSun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Sheoth
Posts: 6,741
Reputation: 83
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
People complain because spamming powerful units to win goes entirely against the spirit of the written rules, in effect your breaking the rules, your not doing it for a narrative, or for fluff, or for a good fought game between two players, your doing it because YOU MUST WIN, YOU MUST HAVE FUN, fuck everyone else, fuck your opponent, you have no respect for them, so why give them the opportunity to enjoy the game


This a hundred times.

Midnight

Creator of Utilitarian Ultramarines Memes - join the XIII on Facebook (no XVII allowed).
MidnightSun is offline  
post #50 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-10-13, 10:47 AM
Senior Member
 
5tonsledge's Avatar
5tonsledge's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: You're Mothers House
Posts: 1,090
Reputation: 2
Default

I think Heldrakes wouldnt be considered op if the Flyer special rule didnt exist. Think about it. they were just skimmers prior to 6th ed. Armor 12 point sinks with 24 inch movement( not able to fire if moving flat out) not as great. Yes i agree Heldrakes are perfect marine killers. I think SM players Loyalist Scum or Traitors alike are gonna have some serious issues countering them since both armies seem to lack Cost Affective Skyfire. But you wont hear me cry op on Heldrakes Considering the 2 strongest armies in my opinion are GK and Tau. Tau list right now with 3 Riptides with Ion Accelerators are just a tad bit on Game Breaking Cost efficiency.
5tonsledge is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > General 40k

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome