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post #101 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 06:51 AM
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Alright let me say it another way then. Your post directed at Stella could be considered a personal attack. If you do not like the tone of his posts ignore them. As Mags said nothing in them warranted your response or the response you did in response to Mags. So drop this and go back to the topic.

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post #102 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Nevermind, I'm over it.

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post #103 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 01:57 PM
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I believe that there are a heck of a lot less "Win at all costs" players about than people seem to think. Look at the actual words again.

Win

At

All

Costs

So what might those costs be? Friendship? Good sportsmanship? Enjoyment?

What are they sacrificing in order to win the game?

In order for something to be a "cost", or indeed to have worth, it needs to be valued by the player. You cannot sacrifice something in the name of winning if you do not value anything but victory itself - a sacrifice must be valued by the person offering it.

An example of someone who wants to "Win at all costs" is someone who will pursue victory while throwing away everything else he values about the game. Otherwise there is no sacrifice, and therefore no cost.

To use the phrase to describe someone who only cares about winning, and not about any other aspect of playing the game, is nonsensical. For that reason, people have taken to using it as a catch-all for competitive players who indeed have something to lose, because most competitive players do in fact value aspects of the hobby beyond winning - they enjoy chatting to friends, meeting new people and developing their skills in a social environment.

The problem arises when they meet people who have no interest in winning, who prefer a collaborative story instead of a winner/loser scenario. Such people will inevitably be trampled into the ground by a competitive player and because of human psychology, will find a need to assign blame, even if no-one is actually at fault.

Thus we have the rise of "Cheesy" as an adjective, "WAAC" as an insult and "Overpowered" as an offense. Because people who lose games need to displace their defeat (a negative experience) onto someone who isn't themselves in order to protect their ego.

A better solution (instead of the bitching we get from both ends of the player spectrum) would be to better evaluate your opponent before a match. Talk for 10 minutes to someone before playing them, and find out if they want the same things as you out of the game. Ask to see their list, and show them yours. If they have a wildly different philosophy to you then simply don't play them, or, if you do, don't complain when either you or they get massacred.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #104 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-12-13, 09:40 PM
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In my gaming group we have a fairly wide spectrum of gamers, Out of the 20 or so gamers 6~ 8 frequently go into the local GW as well as play at club all of these think nothing to spamming strong units and are generally the driving force behind most of the warhammer at club, Whether is the influence of instore gaming and the pressure to buy whats new and shiny I don't know but they are definately on the competative list side of the fence and half of them are actually good gamers as well.
The rest of the gamers at club are more casual in their attitude towards gaming maybe only playing every few weeks and have a fairly broad level of ability and differing types of list some fairly strong others not so much.
I will happily play either group although financially I could never compete with the competative gamers I've a fair collection of guard so always have a small chance if I'm lucky and don't do anything stupid and when playing the others I know that the pressure to think every thing through is off and a few tactical errors will be forgiven.
The thing is though except on a few rare occasions there is almost no interaction between the two type of gamers and most of the rare games between them are ridiculously 1 sided that it's not that much of a surprise which only shows that the balance in the game is crap.

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post #105 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 01:13 AM
Grr! That is all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Freak220 View Post
win-at-all-costs
Just one question, why would that make someone a jerk?


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post #106 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaLkAwaY View Post
Just one question, why would that make someone a jerk?
Is there anything you wouldn't do to win a game?
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post #107 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 01:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaLkAwaY View Post
Just one question, why would that make someone a jerk?
That's a good question and I'd say the only time it makes you a jerk is if the other player is clearly plays for fluff or fun and you don't let him know what kind of list you're bringing.

Otherwise, it doesn't inherently make you a jerk. However it is arguably easier to win a game with three Heldrakes as opposed to no Heldrakes so that tends to give people the assumption that Heldrake users are not skilled players and are only bringing those units to crush an opponent ie a jerk.

Some players don't like being crushed and as Sethis said tend to look for somewhere other than themselves to place the blame for their defeat. Most players who lose to CSM armies tend to place that blame on the Heldrakes rather than themselves. So the CSM player becomes a jerk for using such an over powered unit (perceived or otherwise) just to win games.

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post #108 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 03:16 AM
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I really don't think one's "jerkiness" is determined by your list but rather how you go about playing.

If you play a guy who laughs at all of your bad luck and crows at his own fortunes then argues BS RAW rules and so forth I think most people will see him as a general dick.
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post #109 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaLkAwaY View Post
Just one question, why would that make someone a jerk?
I'm going to bring a list that denies YOU any enjoyment
I'm going to abuse the rules because I know I can
I'm going to argue over every little rule that I can
I'm going to belittle and scrutinize every move/dice roll you make
I'm going to cheat
I'm going to brag how amazing my army/dice/me is/am
At the end of the game I'm going to laugh how easy it was and show you no respect
And I'm going to do all this usually with an unpainted army full of proxies.

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post #110 of 162 (permalink) Old 09-13-13, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
I'm going to bring a list that denies YOU any enjoyment
I'm going to abuse the rules because I know I can
I'm going to argue over every little rule that I can
I'm going to belittle and scrutinize every move/dice roll you make
I'm going to cheat
I'm going to brag how amazing my army/dice/me is/am
At the end of the game I'm going to laugh how easy it was and show you no respect
And I'm going to do all this usually with an unpainted army full of proxies.
This goes back to the original point of the post, why does bringing 2 or 3 Heldrakes automatically make you all of these?

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Forging the Corruptor


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