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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-29-13, 10:40 PM
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As an aside, Orks didn't get a nerf from Furious Charge changes. Blood Angels, well, they got a nerf, but Orks? Well, now you have to strike simultaneously with Tau and Necrons, who might kill one or maybe two Boyz beofre they're wiped from the face of creation, and Guardsmen strike before you now. Oh noez? 50 Guardsmen hit 25 times, wound 8 times, and kill 7 Boyz. It takes over 7 Guardsmen to kill an Ork Boy in a round of combat. You're not in much danger. Now instead of striking at the initative step after Marines, you strike at rhe initiative step below that. Which is the same.

Blood Angels is a whooole different kettle of fish.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-30-13, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Murdock View Post
Maybe I'm just really unlucky, but I've found that my mechanized trukk-boyz list has done a bit worse as of late. Their trukks crumple even more easily than they used to, 12 orks per squad is just not enough to do anything anymore, my Lootas seem far less threatening against vehicles now that glancing hits don't have any immediate effect, and overwatch against any of my charges is generally devastating. Battlewagons are really powerful, as are nobz squads and warbosses, but other than that my units seem to perform poorly. By the end of the first game turn, all my trukks are usually gone, along with maybe 75% of my boyz. Maybe the marine and tau lists I go up against are just really good at destroying orks...

That being said, it could just be that my dice hate me. True story, I had a small squad of 3 meganobz who charged a unit of tau firewarriors. One died from overwatch, and purely by the amount of ones I roll, the other two died in combat/sweeping advance. Apparently Tau > my Meganobz in close combat. Huh.

But, I don't think the issue is really with 6th edition. You have to realize that the orks are using a 4th edition codex, so they're a little behind. Their book was written with a different set of rules in mind, and I'm sure things will get better once they get a new one.
I see your problem.

Forget about the trukks and run buggies, max those ork boyz out to thirty and give them all shootas.

Then you'll me throwing 60 shots down range, plus you'll still have your two melee attacks.

It's all about volume, if your not running enough boyz that requires you to use a snow shovel for movement something is wrong.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-30-13, 04:24 PM
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having just bought ghazgkhull for my horde I have found that his waagh! makes the whole army very good because it lasts for 2 turns and gives him a 2+inv save.
btw tha orkz song is really good and i recognise the ork voices from dawn of war.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-30-13, 05:42 PM
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True, I could do that if I really wanted to be competitive, but that wouldn't be as much fun. The entire fluff of my ork army is that they try to emulate an imperial guard army. So, as bad an idea as it may be, trukk boyz and looted wagons with boomguns all the way! Besides, it's fun to be different. Green tide armies are too mainstream.
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-30-13, 11:35 PM
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True, I could do that if I really wanted to be competitive, but that wouldn't be as much fun. The entire fluff of my ork army is that they try to emulate an imperial guard army. So, as bad an idea as it may be, trukk boyz and looted wagons with boomguns all the way! Besides, it's fun to be different. Green tide armies are too mainstream.
And dare I point out chenkov who does exactly what I stated.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-31-13, 03:10 PM
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And dare I point out chenkov who does exactly what I stated.
That is also true but it still would leave me with a green tide-esque army, which is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Now that I think of it, my army's build resembles a Space Marine army more than an Imperial Guard army anyway. Squads full of Bolters (Shootas) with one heavy weapon (Big Shoota) and a Sergeant (Nob) with a Power Fist (Power Klaw) all in a Rhino (Trukk) transport. They even have Terminators (Meganobz) in Land Raiders (Battlewagons).

Now, I'm not saying that the army doesn't work at all. It does, to some extent. I'm just saying that it doesn't work as well as it used to. Overwatch hurts it a lot, and even the new Furious Charge rules have affected it. In a green tide army, that extra one or two Boyz that die from the lower initiative against Guard seems insignificant, but when there are only 12 Boyz in the squad to begin with it's a big deal!

Back in the day when the Ork codex was new, there were all sorts of fun and creative builds of the army and many of them were quite viable, including my Trukk/Battlewagon rush list. I'm sure there are ork armies out there that work better with the new rules, but mine isn't one of them. Rather than change the whole feel of my army, I'm just gonna wait and see what the new codex brings to the table.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-31-13, 06:12 PM
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I tend to think that Orks are currently sucking hind tit. I play mostly Gaurd against gaurd player. The KFF drop to a 5+ really is telling in a first rank second rank secenario.
A 6+ armor save is basically worthless vs arty. Dakka Jets fall out of the sky vs Valkryies and Vendettas. Lootas are just okay vs flyers really they do get there own coversave so its a wash vs gaurd. Old Zoggy who I dearly love I dont take anymore. The only indirect arty we have is lobbas. Which I think are the best mortars in the game but we have no big brother for them to serve large pie plates. Choppa boys now are not near as good. And Thraka... Thraka waaagh has been well and truely nerfed. It seems to me that GW is really doing its best to nerf orks to hades and gone. I still play them with freindly games but not in tournys.

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-31-13, 08:00 PM
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I tend to think that Orks are currently sucking hind tit. I play mostly Gaurd against gaurd player. The KFF drop to a 5+ really is telling in a first rank second rank secenario.
A 6+ armor save is basically worthless vs arty.
KFF has always been 5+. It got better, as now standard cover is 5+, which means you're essentially in standard cover without moving through Difficult Terrain.

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Dakka Jets fall out of the sky vs Valkryies and Vendettas.
Yeah, they do. Vendettas are really good. The trick is to go second so your Flyer comes in afterwards at which point you can play with movement arcs. Vendettas being really good is a problem with Imperial Guard and for everybody, not a problem with Orks.

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Lootas are just okay vs flyers really they do get there own coversave so its a wash vs gaurd.
Only if the Evade, which significantly reduces their efficiency.

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Old Zoggy who I dearly love I dont take anymore.
But on the upside, he sucked last edition too, so it's a wash.

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Originally Posted by OldRednek View Post
The only indirect arty we have is lobbas. Which I think are the best mortars in the game but we have no big brother for them to serve large pie plates.
Errr... yeah. You try to out-Guard Guard, and you lose. Nor will you beat Dark Eldar at mobility and ranged torrent, or Necrons at survivability. Orks aren't an artillery army, so don't play them as such.

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Choppa boys now are not near as good.
No. Assault is not as strong as shooting, which means Slugga Boyz are worse in comparison to Shoota Boyz. Boys got even better with the removal of No Retreat! and the ability to deal with vehicles in combat.

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And Thraka... Thraka waaagh has been well and truely nerfed.
Yeah, pending an FAQ, but when a new edition is announced, some builds become worse and some become better. Orks weren't too badly affected, but the fact that some units will change for better or worse is inescapable.

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It seems to me that GW is really doing its best to nerf orks to hades and gone.
Play Sisters of Battle. Or Dark Angels. Or Chaos Space Marines. Or Tyranids. GW aren't even exerting themselves with Ork nerfs.

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Last edited by MidnightSun; 10-31-13 at 08:04 PM.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-31-13, 11:13 PM
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I don't even think Midnight needs my help anymore haha He's doing pretty well by himself.

The next WAAAGH! you call Midnight, count me in.

Dear Lord the IG has tons of Dakka
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-28-13, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
As an aside, Orks didn't get a nerf from Furious Charge changes. Blood Angels, well, they got a nerf, but Orks? Well, now you have to strike simultaneously with Tau and Necrons, who might kill one or maybe two Boyz beofre they're wiped from the face of creation, and Guardsmen strike before you now. Oh noez? 50 Guardsmen hit 25 times, wound 8 times, and kill 7 Boyz. It takes over 7 Guardsmen to kill an Ork Boy in a round of combat. You're not in much danger. Now instead of striking at the initative step after Marines, you strike at rhe initiative step below that. Which is the same.

Blood Angels is a whooole different kettle of fish.

Midnight
Hi I thought oneof the Guard players who Old Rednek plays should pipe in.
A 50 guard blob is going to have 45 guardsmen, and 5 sergeants. Now any guard player worth his salt is going to include at least 5 things in his 50 man blob squad. At least 2 Commissars, a priest, 5 flame throwers, either heavy bolters or auto-cannons, and power weapons. In this addition I prefer axes but lets just do the math with swords.
Now I will be honest its generally a cold day in hell before I let an ork player get the charge unless its really beneficial to me that he does. Lets say I screw up though.
Orks assault, I get overwatch for 60 las gun shots which I will hit with 1/6th so 10 hits and 1 wound.
5 heavy bolters will get me 15 so I will hit 2 and wound once. 5 flamers d3 we will assume is 2 hits per; so 10 hits and 5 wounds. 6 Lasgun shots 1 hit (which I pick the target on) and I probably will not wound. 2 bolt pistol which I will probably miss as well. 9 wounds that have no armor save and 1 with a 6+. We'll assume a kind 3 save, so 7 dead you are down to 23 orks and that's just my overwatch.
Assault I swing first. 21 power weapon swings from commissars and sergeants equal 10 hits and 3 wounds, then I get 45 more swings regular (saying everyone gets to swing of course) so 22 hits, and 7 wounds you will save 3. So Orks are now at 13 left and there swings. Shoota boyz will get 36 swings and hit 24 times and get 18 wounds I will save 6 so 12 dead guardsmen. Nob and Priest remain nob'z pk gets 4 swings he will hit with 3 and wound with all three, the priest gets 2 swings with the eviscerator and hits 1 and wounds. So 12 orks to 37 guardsmen remaining guard takes a leadership check and the fight continues.

If I get the charge I will flash burn half your ork squad getting a reasonable 15 flamer wounds and maybe one las pistol and 1 bolt pistol. Shoota boyz overwatch me and get 26 shots and 3 hits 1 being strength 5 ap4. So 1 ap 4 wound and 2 more ap 5. Im down 3 guardsmen. 17 Orks dead
I swing first and get 28 power weapon swings, 14 hits then reroll misses so 21 hits and 7 wounds. I swing with troops 85 times and get 42 hits and then reroll misses and end at 63 hits and 21 wounds. The orks die without getting a return swing. I lose 3 guys.

I've done this really well for a long time.

"Oh it's you again...." *Bang
Inquistor Arkturus Palov as he banishes a daemon to the warp.
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