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post #101 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-25-13, 02:03 AM
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I actually like the codex as it is, yes there are several things that I would like to see changed rule wise (the Defiler is damn near top of the list IMO), and if the option to see a "chapter traits" equivalent for the major unaligned legions I would welcome it; mainly because playing any of those factions are rather "dry".

What I am disappointed in with the new codex is the lack of new units/re-sculpts, and cool models (no The DinoBots, even the flying one, do not count - they are not nice, but not awesome enough). Yes cultists are nice, but without a box of their own and without an option for a dedicated transport - seriously am I the only one who feels that cultists driving half-tracks be awesome?

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post #102 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-25-13, 12:12 PM
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1ksons Havoc units or extra options.
Erm... 4+ invulns, Fearless and Slow and Purposeful? That strikes me as a tad too powerful on a unit armed with purely Heavy Weapons, since SnP has essentially no downside. Give them a Psyker as their squad leader? None of the Tzeentch powers are any good, especially on a Havoc Squad, and if you give them rulebook access they get either some shitty power from Telepathy, or Divination and become waaaay too good.

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What I am disappointed in with the new codex is the lack of new units/re-sculpts, and cool models (no The DinoBots, even the flying one, do not count - they are not nice, but not awesome enough). Yes cultists are nice, but without a box of their own and without an option for a dedicated transport - seriously am I the only one who feels that cultists driving half-tracks be awesome?
Cultists with vehicles is pretty much Imperial Guard without Heavy Weapons or Flyers, so I'm not quite sure why you would ever use them rather than ally in Imperial Guard. CSM got some totally new units, like Warp Talons and Daemon Engines and Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths and Cultists, but in a way, Lords, Spawn, Noise Marines, Daemon Princes, Sorcerors, Raptors, Bikers, and Havocs are all new units as well, because they changed so hugely. Apart from the 1/10 chance that someone actually brought Gift of Chaos, how many times did you see Spawn in 5th? Chaos Lords? Noise Marines? They have all been given a significant boost and a big change in how they're used (in the case of Spawn, the change is whether they're used). Raptors have become a viable choice. Havocs are worth taking now.

Same as Dark Angels, who didn't really gain all that much (2 shitty planes, a 150pt Land Speeder, an awful Special Character, some 'elite' Bikes and Terminators), but changed hugely as they changed from being 'Codex: Deathwing' to 'Codex: Dark Angels' - they can know run Terminators, Bikes and Marines, the latter two as entire armies if you wish.

I can't think of any army update that got a huge resculpt or wave of new models; maybe Tau? Even then it was more the dynamic change of the army that made them so different to their previous incarnation (Fire Warriors becoming worth it over Kroot).

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post #103 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-25-13, 02:10 PM
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I agree that cultists should of got a box set, big ball drop that one

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post #104 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-25-13, 03:45 PM
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Erm... 4+ invulns, Fearless and Slow and Purposeful? That strikes me as a tad too powerful on a unit armed with purely Heavy Weapons, since SnP has essentially no downside. Give them a Psyker as their squad leader? None of the Tzeentch powers are any good, especially on a Havoc Squad, and if you give them rulebook access they get either some shitty power from Telepathy, or Divination and become waaaay too good.
Not sure where you think I said "give them 4++, Fearless, or Slow and Purposeful.", because I didn't...I guess we'll just chalk it down to you disagreeing with everything I say on every single thread I post in and having some sort of vendetta lol...;)

Seriously now though, as I have said a hundred times now just as an example, 1ksons Havocs with some unique rules would've been quite easy. Make them all psykers and/or have access to stuff like psycannon-type weapons. Some other than "yay, Rubrics with S+P, 4++ and ap3 boltguns."

I am not really overly bothered though, as I have said I do not dislike the codex. Quite the opposite. So cannot really be bothered to discuss it anymore as I do not care enough and it isn't going to change anything: We might get some supplements, they might even be good, but I doubt it, so meh...
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post #105 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-25-13, 05:56 PM
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Not sure where you think I said "give them 4++, Fearless, or Slow and Purposeful.", because I didn't...I guess we'll just chalk it down to you disagreeing with everything I say on every single thread I post in and having some sort of vendetta lol...;)
I said that because that's the only thing GW have done to distinguish Thousand Sons from regular CSM apart from give them Inferno Bolts, and Havocs with Inferno Bolts isn't even worth imagining. Tzeentch, on the table top, is represented by Invulnerable Saves and Psychic Powers. That's just how it works. Do the Thousand Sons even have Havocs any more? Can a Rubric Marine wield a Heavy Weapon? If they can, why do they not carry squad-based heavy weaponry? If you want to field a fluffy army, don't field Havocs at all, rather than try to make Rubric Havocs.

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Seriously now though, as I have said a hundred times now just as an example, 1ksons Havocs with some unique rules would've been quite easy. Make them all psykers and/or have access to stuff like psycannon-type weapons. Some other than "yay, Rubrics with S+P, 4++ and ap3 boltguns."
Psycannon type weapons? Noise Marines have those, in the form of Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters. Making them all Psykers, or giving them Brotherhood of Sorcerors? I don't see how that works - you give them anything but Divination and it's meaningless, you give them Divination and they rock. You give them their own psychic power, maybe psycannon-like weapons, and... wait. You just want Grey Knight Purgation Squads, don't you?

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post #106 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-25-13, 10:40 PM
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... wait. You just want Grey Knight Purgation Squads, don't you?
Oh yeah I just love Grey Knights being a CSM/Daemon player...Ever since 2nd edition I just wanted my Chaos to be like Grey Knights! lol....I Love you Midnight, I really do.
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post #107 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe not a psycannon but maybe a heavy bolter that fires inferno bolts. Easy peasy.

Give Death Guard Havocs a poisoned torrent flamer.

Give Emperors Children Havocs blast masters or a new sonic variation.

Give World Eaters Havocs some sort of Assault Cannon that actually has Assault as its weapon type rather than heavy.


Give Thousand Son Chosen a close combat weapon that turns models into Spawn.

Give Death Guard Chosen a close combat weapon with poisoned and possibly a rule similar to entropic strike.

Give Emperors children Chosen a close combat weapon that increases initiative and attacks, maybe shred

Give World Eaters an axe. Any 6 allows additional attacks, etc.

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post #108 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 05:59 PM
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Why do you need different weapons to be different? Whats wrong with a different paint scheme, marks, options taken, imagination?

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post #109 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 07:32 PM
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imagination?
qft

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post #110 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-27-13, 01:09 AM
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Well, i'll be honest with you.

After a long conversation today with a friend I have actually changed my opinion. I am finding myself agreeing with you Kiro...

The brutal truth is that we have actually all become lazy due to forums. Forums are a nice way of sharing the hobby and I understand the irony I am posting this on a forum...But, they have stunned creativity in the game. So many people now just copy/paste lists from online without questioning what they are reading and crucially without having any creativity...Have we got to the stage now where we are incapable of being creative and instead demand supplements for every single faction we like? It would seem so.

Chaos Codex gives us the tools to do this. Yes, some of the marks are flawed, but who the fuck cares, when with a bit of creativity one can easily work around this??...
Don't want tzeentch marked Havocs squad? Take Noise Marines and model them as Thousand Sons Havocs then...Or Oblits. Or vice versa.

Same thing is happening with the C:SM rumoured rulesets: People are crying as if it's the end of the world because BT's are being integrated, because Centurions look crap...Well, friggin' kitbash them if you don't like them...Be creative..... And besides, we have only seen them in pretty unflattering photos so far (bright yellow/blue isn't exactly photogenic) and with limited builds, so no one has had a chance to look at what else you can do with the kits yet...
As for BT's...Do they really need a separate codex? Is it even possible, in a 40k that is very different to fantasy in spaaace that it was back in the 90's...? No, it isn't. So basically, it's tweak them or die...Dark Angels kind of 'stole' the Knights in Spaaaaace fluff from BT's slowly over the years anyway (From Native Americans to Knights in spaaace in about a decade)...And besides, if none of the 4 original chaos legions don't need a separate supplement let alone codex, why would BT need one? Seems C:SM is taking a leaf from the Chaos codex and doing an integrated approach, which I feel is rather clever. Just replace chapter tactics with marks of chaos and you have the ability to field very different armies with different playstyles (Nurgle = slow but tough Slaanesh fast good close combat, Tzeentch = like the magicks vs Iron Hands = If you like Mech White Scars = biker armies Black Templars = if you dig challenges and assault in a shooty game), with the same end result.
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