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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-28-13, 01:18 PM
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80% of people who play this game are fucking terrible at it. Unfortunately, much of the 20% who know what they're going on about get tired of dealing with the 80% who just scream out derp all the time, and hence they are less likely to bother wading into an argument against a bunch of idiots.

Compounding this issue is then the members of the 20% who have entrenched views, generally holdovers from the last edition, and are too busy bitching about the new rules to bother considering new tactics.

Then you have to consider potential metagame differences. Nominally, there should be no real difference to the metagame of any particular area, considering the advent of internet discussion, but unfortunately the 80% have such wide and varied reasons for bringing suboptimal armies (ranging from fluffiness to inexperience to outright stupidity) that this creates variation from area to area, so stuff that shouldn't work in Sydney somehow manages smash face in New York.

At any rate, this all leaves very, very few people around who are actually worth listening to. I'd highly recommend a daily dose of pink.

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-28-13, 01:58 PM
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I personally think part of the problem is people forget that "What works for me" isn't the same as "What works for everyone else". This often comes down to what units you're using and what you want them for.

Say, for example, Wraithguard in the 4th Ed Eldar book. Now most people felt they were too slow, their gun didn't have enough range and Wraithsight was too much of an issue to field them, but I've seen them act as a strong and durable core to an army because even while slow they were capable of weathering punishing amounts of fire and punished you for getting too close.

It's a great example of something working for one person that doesn't work for others. I, personally, like using Repentia. I've used them to carve up all kinds of things, but having to employ the Grand Theft Rhino strategy, working around Rage (in 5th) and protecting them until they hit the enemy lines generally doesn't work for everyone else.

It's easy to tell people what to take, hell Stelek does it all the time, but to explain how to use it, or to show ways to make something more effective than it appears on paper alone? Your average person doesn't know how to effectively communicate these points.

My actual tactical advice? Forget everything the internet has taught you, find the things that you like and figure out how to make them work. Develop strategies, new play styles and creative new ways to do things and you'll not only become a better player, you'll throw your opponent off by not playing how they expect. That's what I learned to do and it made me a much better player for it.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-28-13, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by coke123 View Post
Then you have to consider potential metagame differences. Nominally, there should be no real difference to the metagame of any particular area, considering the advent of internet discussion, but unfortunately the 80% have such wide and varied reasons for bringing suboptimal armies (ranging from fluffiness to inexperience to outright stupidity) that this creates variation from area to area, so stuff that shouldn't work in Sydney somehow manages smash face in New York.
Right..because this can have nothing to do with the preferences of different groups or anything. Like players from one area finding armies a, b, and c appealing while players from another liking armies x, y, and z better (thats just the armies, not talking about lists.)

Yeah, it totally has to be because less experienced players want to take 'suboptimal' lists (read as not the same one or two builds per codex.)

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-28-13, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by normtheunsavoury View Post
The main problem with you tube videos and the Beasts of War stuff is its one way traffic, there's no real way to debate with what's been put forward in a video, you're just given the 'facts' as the presenter sees them and that's it.

Whereas on sites like Heresy, an idea is put forward and others than have the ability to chip in and develop the idea. If someone says that using X unit is a good idea against Y then that can be held to closer scrutiny, people can and will say whether or not, in their experience, the idea works or not.
I completely agree! however I don't mind listening to them because they can sometimes bring up things that you may miss as far as a specific tactic or just something in general about the unit that I may have missed.

I NEVER take what is said literally and follow it like its the best advice but as I said it can sometimes give aid.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-28-13, 03:31 PM
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Wait...there are idiots on the INTERNET?! Not that bastion of taste and intelect Youtube!


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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-28-13, 05:39 PM
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Wait...there are idiots on the INTERNET?! Not that bastion of taste and intelect Youtube!

No way man! Everything on the net is 100% legit.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-13, 01:28 AM
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One thing I've learnt in my time on this little blue/green planet: Advice is nothing more than nostalgia, picked up, dusted off and sold for more than it's worth. :D
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-13, 02:32 AM
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Personally, I think that 3++ is a terrible blight upon the hobby, as their guides boil down to listing the two or three optimal lists and then saying everything else sucks. If they really are tactically skilled, they'd be listing useful tactics for every unit, not just saying that it's not worth taking and discarding it. They're also geared entirely towards tournament gaming, which is only a small subset of players. Hell, they're a small subset of the 20% mentioned above.

Any website, YouTube channel or blog that only ever advocates spamming the same combinations that are mathematically optimal in a vacuum loses a lot of points with me. They rarely take into account local meta, local terrain, terrain at all (And tournaments routinely have far too little), personal preference, or the enjoyment of either player. That last one is the most important part of the game, and all of the internet wisdom seems to completely forget about it.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-13, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
Personally, I think that 3++ is a terrible blight upon the hobby, as their guides boil down to listing the two or three optimal lists and then saying everything else sucks. If they really are tactically skilled, they'd be listing useful tactics for every unit, not just saying that it's not worth taking and discarding it. They're also geared entirely towards tournament gaming, which is only a small subset of players. Hell, they're a small subset of the 20% mentioned above.
During 5th they had tacticas that did this. Now 1d4chan has better tacticas than 3++.

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Originally Posted by Frostbite View Post
Any website, YouTube channel or blog that only ever advocates spamming the same combinations that are mathematically optimal in a vacuum loses a lot of points with me. They rarely take into account local meta, local terrain, terrain at all (And tournaments routinely have far too little), personal preference, or the enjoyment of either player. That last one is the most important part of the game, and all of the internet wisdom seems to completely forget about it.
Hence the form my 5th Ed Sisters tactica took, and my 6th Ed one is taking. It's better to go over what the unit is and isn't good at, what traps to avoid when using them and let the reader decide what they like and don't like.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-29-13, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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On another note I find the mark of a good tactic or list building guide is it suggests multiple builds and units that go well with said builds. For instance in my own army there are a few units that fufull the same battle field roll just noticeable worse. For instance every list needs anti-air and for CSM's that means either flakk havocs behind a DF with quad gun or some helldrakes. Now if someone suggest auto-cannon havocs as a sound alternative or a flying DP they obviously aren't looking at the cost effectiveness factor, and unless they come up with a real good reason or tactic explaining why this list choice makes sense then you are justified in writing them off as not knowing what they are talking about.


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