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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Default Is Overwatch Make or Break?

So I haven't played alot of this edition, mostly due to lack of opponents, and I have one army that I live and breath, and that's my Thousand Sons. While there are some Slaneesh aspects, to keep the army thematic my entire Troop core is based around Rubric marines... and while they can rip things up in the shooting phase with their S&P and their Inferno bolts, they don't get to Overwatch. Alot of people say this is a uge failing, and enough to make Rubrics unplayable. Is this the general consensus?

(note: it's not gonna get me to change my army, but it will be food for thought).

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 11:10 AM
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It's handy to make people rethink long charges, but it's by no means game breaking not having it.

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 11:18 AM
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Honestly my ex[eroamce os that overwatch is somewhat overrated. Whilst it does some damage to units charging i've only had one time where it was a game changer and that was weight of numbers more than anything.

From an overwatcher point of view some armes do it better anyway, tau with all their fancy upgrades and funnily enough orks because of the sheer number of shots they tend to throw out when a mob of even slugger boys gets charged. At the end of the day very few battles will be won by 10 bs1 shots.
Lets take a standard csm squad, i'm assumign they are armed with plasma overload as that's howi would normally be kitting mine out. So i have a pls pistol, 2 plas guns, 7 bolt guns. I have a 1 in six chance to hit. I'm looking at statistically no more than 2 hits and the chances of one of them being a plasma round is less than 50%.
Can you think of any battle where a single boltgun shot will make much difference?
Whilst i know your rubric marines will have better ap etc etc you're still only looking at 1 or 2 casualties thanks to the reduced bs.
Tau do it well because they are able to buff their bs and use nearby squads to bolster firepower, Orks do it well thanks to pure volume of shots and the fact that they really only lose one point to bs.
I would say rubric marines aren't really any worse off than they used to be. they can still shoot lots of things to buggery and at the end of the day they won't lose much by not being able to overwatch.

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 11:54 AM
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No, it's not enough to make them unplayable. Overwatch only really matters if you have blob guard or ork hordes, where the sheer volume of shots is bound to kill something. In the grande scheme of things it isn't game changing.

I also love my Thousand Sons and have fielded them in a campaign and won-lost ratio was about 60-40. I got slaughtered the first couple of games though, because they are tricky to use until you get used to them.
I ended up putting them in Rhinos, and then disembarking and rapid firing those ap3 boltguns. After a turn, they can then walk around freely, rapid fire, and charge. And this more than makes up for there lack of overwatch.

A lot has been made about them dying easily to small arms fire and thus people have claimed they are very hard to use. I am not sure why though, as it's not exceptionally difficult to keep them away from small arms fire. I keep most things away from rapid fire weapons actually. Who doesn't? It's not that difficult - there is a thing called LOS and cover.

Also, Ahriman with Telepathy is totally worth it: Invisibility on 1ksons squad is magic. 2+ cover save with 4++. They can then rapid fire ap3 and assault in the same turn, while the enemy is hitting on WS1. It has made most players at my gaming club laugh and cry...
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 12:02 PM
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Unless mass flamers are involved, I've never really had an issue with overwatch. Your opponent could get lucky, true, but most of the time, overwatch will hit only a few times (depending on squad size) and often enough, the wound is saved.
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 12:17 PM
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Yeh, as the others have said may experience too has been that overwatch is "useful" but by no means make or break.

It is great for horde armies that can put out a huge amount of fire and large numbers of flamers are a worry.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 02:09 PM
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It didn't need adding in. The designers really overestimated the power of an assault but with the addition of AP into an assault (reducing Power Weapon effectiveness based on the appearance of the model for example) among many others, but it is simply one of them things that was "rule of cool'd" in.

As it stands, it simply amplifies the power of shooty armies, and it yet another gimp against CC based lists who do not have the advantage of assault from Transport for the most point.



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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sturk View Post
Unless mass flamers are involved, I've never really had an issue with overwatch. Your opponent could get lucky, true, but most of the time, overwatch will hit only a few times (depending on squad size) and often enough, the wound is saved.
Yeh this is the only real game changer in the context of overwatch. With some units that are almost impossible to charge such as 15 burna boys or the old flamers of tzeench which any normal unit (not 30 boys or 50 gaurdsmen) will be the death of the unit



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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 03:09 PM
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In some situations it can be. In a game I played last night with my guard, my PCS got assaulted by swarms of nids and thanks to overwatch, they never made it there. That PCS next turn shot down his tyranid prime, which allowed me to easily mop up his remaining warriors.

In general, I think, only flamers are great for this. Against some squads charging is deadly (as mentioned above), and combined with random charge length it can get very irritating. Make or break? Maybe. Assault vs shooty, very possibly.

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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-19-13, 05:09 PM
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Everyone's basically summed it up, but in this particular situation, it doesn't matter for you. Chaos Marines are never going to matter for Overwatch, there's just not enough shots. If you were playing Guard, or Orks, or something, it would be a rather large loss, but one more wound when you already have Power Armor and S4/T4 means very little. Against something tough, it'd probably not die anyways, and against something weak, there'll be so many of them that it isn't enough. Just use your Rubric Marines to tear apart high armor, and you'll be doing more than enough extra damage to make up for the one or two extra wounds you might cause with Overwatch.

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