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post #41 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-28-13, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
Sorry, but no.
The AK fires a FMJ round. It's been standard since the gun was introduced.
Milsurp learn about it.

I also suggest that you read about the elysian drop troops. Who (gasp) specialize in rapid deployment.

I also suggest that you read the novel The traitors hand.

You'll find that you are wrong.
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post #42 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-28-13, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
The AK fires a FMJ round. It's been standard since the gun was introduced.
Milsurp learn about it.

And yet, I mentioned the M16 and it's variants. Did you even read the post before commenting on it?

I also suggest that you read about the elysian drop troops. Who (gasp) specialize in rapid deployment.

And yet one of the rarest of all the Imperial guard regiments. Even then, they don't specialized in rapid deployment from orbit...the process which is the most time consuming. Moving from landing zone to battlefield locations for the drop troops is fast, but getting there from orbit is not.

I also suggest that you read the novel The traitors hand.

Perhaps you should read...oh this little thing called the Horus Heresy or I dunno...Any of the Imperial Armour books. I have yet to read about a "Rapid" deployment from space. From the landing zones sure, as stated in 2 of the IA books with the Drop troops, but never from space. Just for the Seige of Vraks it was weeks before Infantry from the Siege regiments even set foot on the planet. Obviously, this is not the norm compared to standard invasions, but in Prospero burns, the Imperial Army units attached to the space wolves still took 2 weeks to mobilize from the fleet into an effective fighting force on the planet.

You'll find that you are wrong.
You are correct on one point, FMJ and AK rounds usually go through and through due to the steel core and amount of powder in the round (I should know...I own 2 of them), but the point you seem to neglect either intentionally or due to ignorance, is that when these rounds exit a person, they leave quite a large hole out the back. The Afghans were terrified of the AK74 for this particular reason when the Soviets invaded...Someone hit by this round without a steel plate to protect them, usually isn't combat effective anymore. Last I checked, Flak armor isn't designed to stop bullets.

So yea....

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post #43 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-28-13, 11:56 PM
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Was a medic in Afghanistan, treated a couple gunshot wounds both 5.56 Nato and 7.62 short, and they can exit anywhere depending on what the range was and what bits of your body it hits along the way, all rounds can tumble because they are heavier at the back than the front due to being pointy, does not matter that they have f.m.j.

As to the o.p, the Imperium would annihilate us, nit picking over small arms weapons is pointless, battleships appear in orbit saying surrender or die, we nuke them and watch the nukes fizzle against void shields then cue white flags on earth

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post #44 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-28-13, 11:58 PM
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You are correct on one point, FMJ and AK rounds usually go through and through due to the steel core and amount of powder in the round (I should know...I own 2 of them), but the point you seem to neglect either intentionally or due to ignorance, is that when these rounds exit a person, they leave quite a large hole out the back. The Afghans were terrified of the AK74 for this particular reason when the Soviets invaded...Someone hit by this round without a steel plate to protect them, usually isn't combat effective anymore. Last I checked, Flak armor isn't designed to stop bullets.

So yea....

Red text is for Mods only. Norm.
No I am fully aware of what a bullet does to a person.

I am also fully aware of all the people who survived being shot as well.

Secondly the AK 74 rounds tumble on impact. That's what makes them deadly. They still fire FMJ.
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post #45 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-29-13, 12:30 AM
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I think bullet effects are maybe straying a little from the topic?
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post #46 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-29-13, 12:41 AM
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I think bullet effects are maybe straying a little from the topic?
Topics like this are always going to boil down to the numbers.

It's what makes these discussions pointless. We can say a las rifle is better than a AK 47. But why it is better? How much thermal energy is required to burn a hole in a human. or take off their arm?
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post #47 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-29-13, 12:47 AM
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Topics like this are always going to boil down to the numbers.
Yes but those numbers aren't weapons system v weapon system wars aren't decided by that, we need to compare are resources, resolve, logistical support, combat ability and the like.
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post #48 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-29-13, 01:05 AM
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Yes but those numbers aren't weapons system v weapon system wars aren't decided by that, we need to compare are resources, resolve, logistical support, combat ability and the like.
but the numbers are what decides things on a large scale.

You could have the best trained men in the world but if they are armed with bolt action .22's going against militia armed with AK 47's isn't going to work out well for them is it?

The point is that you have to know how effective your weapons are in logical scenarios none of this deadliest warrior crap.
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post #49 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-29-13, 01:10 AM
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but the numbers are what decides things on a large scale.

You could have the best trained men in the world but if they are armed with bolt action .22's going against militia armed with AK 47's isn't going to work out well for them is it?

The point is that you have to know how effective your weapons are in logical scenarios none of this deadliest warrior crap.
It depends on how those bolt action .22's are employed.

The M4 Sherman was inferior on paper to the Pz V Panther yet we all know how that one panned out.

The Argentineans had better weapons on paper than the British in the Falklands and we know how that went.

The Arabs seriously outnumbered the Israelis in 1967 and 73 as did the Communist forces outnumber the UN in Korea.

The match up of particular weapons is really not the deciding factor.
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post #50 of 90 (permalink) Old 03-29-13, 03:13 AM
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It depends on how those bolt action .22's are employed.

The M4 Sherman was inferior on paper to the Pz V Panther yet we all know how that one panned out.

The Argentineans had better weapons on paper than the British in the Falklands and we know how that went.

The Arabs seriously outnumbered the Israelis in 1967 and 73 as did the Communist forces outnumber the UN in Korea.

The match up of particular weapons is really not the deciding factor.
Am I really going to have to spell it out? a .22 can kill a person. But it requires having a shot enter the brain or heart or other vital area.

An ak fires allot faster has a bigger bullet and requires less training to use.


That's what I am trying to say. While the equipment isn't the whole story it makes up an important part.

That's why space marines don't use las rifles. They don't pack the same punch as a bolter.
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