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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-13, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Default On Winning

So I am a bit at a loss when it comes to this subject. So i wanted to farm opinions on here.

When I play in my local tourniments I tend to win. Not everytime I go, but out of the last 8 I have won 6, and placed in the top 3 for all of them. It was all Orks. I played some Kan Wall lists, then some nob biker and trukk boy lists, and with the arrival of 6th ed I jumped on the Mega Nob rape train.

So now the time has come for me to switch armies. Mainly because I feel kind of dirty. I run variations of the same list nearly every time I do tournies and I feel like its getting old. So my first question is

Do you begrudge people who win with the same list over and over again?

So I am for now putting the orks on the shelf and only going to rock them out in big deal games, or when I need to stop shit talk. This said I looked around and I really want to run massed necron infantry. I like the way the army feels and I suck at painting so that a plus there. So I kind of feel filthy again, I can see it now "Here comes that asshole Obinhi again, oh and whats that? Of couse he has Necrons..." So my next question is

Do you care what people think about your army?

Now I am talking purely tourniment lists, fun games half the time I let my foe dictate what he wants be to bring so he can test lists or whatever. I also have Tau, Space Wolves, and IG, the IG are finished and ready to rock as well, the Space wolves are 81 standard dudes, not a single vehicle or terminator to be found. And the tau are the tau, My 5 year old crushed my tau with a slap together necron list (which did not even have a single HQ unit).

I suppose I just want to feel better about winning. I like almost everyone I play with in the local area, but I dont want to be seen as the dick who only plays to win at all costs. Any thoughts?

Oh and full disclosure, my record thus far, from what I have kept track of. And I have only played about 75% of the players that are active in the 100 miles around my house. so there is that as well. I have also never been to a Con or major GT, so I am deff in the 'big fish small pond' class at the moment.

IG 27 Wins 19 losses
Orks 45 wins 6 losses
Tau Unplayed out side of the home
Space wolves 4 wins 2 losses (small games only)
Necrons Unplayed out side of the home.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-13, 09:56 PM
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The first list I wrote with my sparkly new 5th edition Necron codex was 6 Night Scythes and 3 Doom Scythes. I liked the idea of a group of Necrons flying through the galaxy, landing to preach the gospel of the Star Gods to the juvenile races of the galaxy, and disintegrating the ones who could not be taught to worship. It was totally a fluff thing.
Before I finished modelling the army, 6th edition dropped and Scythes became flyers, Necrons generally regarded as instant-win, and the flyer-list the most scoffed at and cheese-tastic army in the game. It's pretty discouraging. I walked into my "F"LGS to play and once I started deploying the GW employee looked at my army and declares "Necrons? Isn't that instant cheese?" I was playing AV13 wall to top it off, I don't really consider that a cheesey list. I went on to lose 9-2.
However, since I only play a couple of times a month at best, i've decided to say forget it all anyway and go for the gusto: I'm currently working on a Necron/ImpGuard allies list with some kind of ship to CountsAs Vendettas and i'll do 3Scythes 6Vendettas or something along those lines. I don't really care what people think of my army. It's pretty much just there to amuse me when i'm not changing diapers or working.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-10-13, 10:14 PM
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It depends. When I play with nids, I win much more often than not. But my list is constantly in flux and I often use units (mawlocs, harpies, malanthropes, lictors, warriors, etc) that aren't great.

There are some people like that. Have an army or two, but it always changes and isn't netlisty or spammy. I enjoy playing them. They can get the best out of whatever they use and are familiar with their codex. They won't let you cheat/screw up but won't do it themselves either.

But every club/local tourney has 1 or 2 douches that always bring the best list - like necron air force, daemons screamers/flamers, leafblower guard. They expect concessions then don't make them - and really, nobody likes them for it. This guy sucks.

My tactics articles, if you need help making a new army, or beating one:

High Elves - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=112437

Tyranids - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=118886

New Warriors of Chaos - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...=1#post1336092


I have a new theory in life - for everything - from ethics to legal cases - it is called pre-emptive self defense.

Last edited by DivineEdge; 01-10-13 at 11:37 PM.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 12:20 AM
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Just play what you want and enjoy. If you're starting to feel like Orks aren't fun for you then change it, but, not because you "feel like you have to" just to appease others in your area.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome, hearing it makes me feel better. After every 'serious' game (we pay 10 bucks into a pool for each tourny) I aways stay a little late and talk tatics with the guys. Some of the younger pups always ask what is the 'OP' stuff in my army and I have to point out that amost nothing is OP as everything pretty much has a counter some where.

I never take named heros or anything, and I normally blast the folks who do. When they ask me how I beat the list I point out that they relied too much on the hero and when he died thier train of thought failed. I like to think of each of my units as a tool, and I like each unit to have more then one use. So like my nob bikers. I take them just because they draw fire from the battlewagons full of mega nobs. People seemed to be conditioned to kill nob bikers as quickly as they could so I fed the fear. Now they target the battle wagons first so I kit out the bikers again to actually do some damage. I have noticed alot of folks real trouble is not the armies or the lists they bring, but targer priority and following thru with plans. I hate to take advantage of the holes in someones thinking, but it feels like if my ten bucks is on the line I am going to go for the kill and not dick around.

I should point out that no one has told me they have a problem with me or my lists, and I dont think they would lie to me, but I dont want to turn into 'That Guy'. I also go out of my way not to even look into net lists, as I prefer to build lists on my own, normally on the shitter! lol

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace of Ultramar View Post
Just play what you want and enjoy. If you're starting to feel like Orks aren't fun for you then change it, but, not because you "feel like you have to" just to appease others in your area.
Ya, It just feels like my build is an I win button, and I dont want to change it up just to lose, because that feels dumb.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 12:31 AM
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If your opponents play against the same list again and again, and yet cannot form a meaningful defence against it, you're not the problem. They are. You are not obliged to humour their inability to adjust to your army.

Don't take this the wrong way, but Orks aren't even top tier. Kan Wall, Bikers and Nobz all have glaring weaknesses a competent general with a decent list can exploit. If you really want to make people cry, take top tier IG/GK or Necrons. Or Daemons.

The thing is, people tend to not be able to suck it up and take a proactive approach to solving the problem. Instead of going "ooh, he's playing list X and kicking my ass, I'm going to go online and look for counters/consider proxying a good unit against it/change how I deploy or play" people tend to go "OMG you're so full of cheese" and "you don't know how to play for fun" and "I'm conceding on turn 3, why do I even bother?".

The trick, assuming that you want to keep playing the same people, is to meet them halfway, and start the long hard slog of trying to teach them how to build an army that can compete worth a damn. You need to spend as much time as you can helping them write lists, coming up with competitive choices that they can squeeze into their fluffy army, and teaching them about how to win games. After every game where you kick their ass, tell them one thing they could have done differently that might have altered how the game went. If they seem really receptive, mention two things. Never more than two, or they think you're an arrogant ass who's rubbing their face in defeat.

Some people will flat out refuse. They will ignore your advice, and continue to build lists including Legion of the Damned and Conscripts. Never play them unless there is no alternative. Neither of you will have fun. They'll sulk, you'll feel bad, or get pissed off at their stupidity.

Some people will take to it like a fish to water, and discover that this whole "playing to win" thing can actually be a huge amount of fun, just as much as "forging a narrative". Ace!

Some people will take some of your advice, and ignore the rest of it. That's cool. You can't (shouldn't!) dictate their hobby. Just be as helpful as you can, and if they're unwilling to buy 8 dedicated transports, try to get them to buy one or two "just to try them out" and then sing their praises when they put them on the table - even go so far as to leave their better units alive as long as possible. The better those units perform, the more likely they are to buy more of them. If they have 10 Grey Hunters in a Rhino, let them do their stuff with minimal interference while you wipe the Blood Claws off the table, game after game, after game. It might cost you some wins, but it'll cement your reputation as someone who knows what they're talking about and eventually raise the bar, however fractionally.

TL;DR: Some people will always suck at the game. Ignore them. Play people who you can encourage and support to become better players.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 12:37 AM
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I have felt the same way regarding my Necrons somewhat lately, as I seem to win a fair majority of the time. I use, at most, 3 fliers (if I even run them) and usually go Annihilation Barge heavy.

So yeah, try changing up your list if you feel it is an issue. Or just forget about what everyone else thinks. As long as you can keep getting games, why change it?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 12:39 AM
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Yeah I think if your opponents have not figured out how to defeat your list that does not change much then the problem is them. Even though you want to change armies to make it more interesting I think you will run into the same problem that you may start tabling them. So it might be easier to dumb down the orks.


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-11-13, 06:28 PM
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I always have this issue with IG in my local area. I have a high W/L ratio, with my mechspam IG (also with vendetta to be a "bomber" with my 3 demo charge SWS). Funnily enough, my high win rate is making me consider writing a solid counter list that would smack it around a bit, or at least make it worried (methinks white scars style SM with bikes and speeders, or maybe DA - not done research here). Just to prove to all the other players that its not an invincible list. Although i do agree relative to my local meta it is filth, particularly with 6 troop units, 9 tanks and a flyer all for 1500pts, with two russes at opposing board edges. Within my friendship group, if there are any cries of cheese, i try to give them the best tips/ counter units against the IG, because they are NOT invincible, such as the simple axiom that Imperial armies have immensely powerful front lines, but can be very weak to flanking assaults / rearguard action (and that does not mean DS your termies into my parking lot so i go OMFG DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE).

General Antonius, Task force Iron Storm cmdr, Cadian 9th Mechanised Infantry Rgt.


WHAT, I CAN'T HAVE MORE THAN SIX MANTICORES!


I'm facing NECRONS
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