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post #1 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Default A Final Fairwell to 40k, and GW

With the latest release of Dark Angels I have finally decided to call it quits with 40k and GW. Its something I have been thinking about doing for
some time now and the Dark Angels release has put the final nail in the coffin for me.

GW has become a company that no longer cares about its costumers it only cares about making as much money as it can. I do realize that the ultimate goal of a company is to make money and lots of it, but the good companies find a way to balance that with staying loyal to their costumers something that GW has gotten away from. Shinning examples of this flaw are
the last few codex releases and 6th edition.

Lets start with 6th edition, most of the new/changed rules made models that were good in 5th edition no longer good or as good (ex. Transports, Powerswords, ext...). Now on the surface this looks like GW is just trying to balance the game more which may be partially true, but when you dig deeper you see that it is just a way to force you to buy new stuff if you want to be able to play competitively.

This theme also continues into their codexes where they continually make models that were staples in the last incarnation of the codex useless while making models that were all but useless the best units in the codex. Again at first this can be written off as just trying to balance the codex but if you look harder you realize its just another ploy to make you spend money to stay competitive.

If this type of thing happened once in a while I would believe that they really were just trying to make the game more balanced, but it happens with almost every codex release and every new edition of the game. Hell they even find a way to do this with their paint sets, releasing a new set every so often and discontinuing their old ones.

Now lets get into pricing. I have been playing 40k for about 4 years now and in that time the price of GW products has skyrocketed. A few examples:
when I started playing the starter box (Assault on Black Reach) was $65 about a year after it went up to $75 then quickly up to $90 with the new one being $99. When I started White Dwarf was $6 a few months after I started it went up to $8 shortly after that it was $9 now its $10. When I started the most expensive model was a Land Raider at $55 now costing $75 with the most expensive models costing upwards of $80. Now I do understand that over these four years the coast of making these products has gone up and the value of my dollar has gone down, and that some kind of increase in price is warranted and expected. That being said you can not convince me that these factors justify a 50% to 90% price increase across the board. Oh and lets not forget the new hardcover codexes that cost $50, im sure that making a hardcover book is more expensive but God at least give us the option of a softcover.

If you want an example of how you are being ripped off by GW look no further then new Dark Talon that boasts a price tag of $75.00. The model itself is little more than a Space marine Stormtalon with wings and some DA bits attached. A Stormtalon will only set you back $45.50 so essentially you are paying an extra $30 for wings and some DA bling. Now I know the GW apologists among you will try to say that this price difference is because they use more material and that they had to pay a new sculptor and make a
new mold for the model. I just dont buy it though the amount of new material used in the model is costing them pennies and the sculptor already had a model that was 2/3 done with Stormtalon, not to mention that paying for a sculptor and a new mold is something they would have had to do anyway if this was a completely new model.

Lets not even get into finecast which is alot better quality wise then the launch, but $75 for 4 models (see: the White Council) is just insane.

Now some of you will say I just laid down the basis for a really good/ successful business plan but like I said earlier the best companies find a way to make money with out screwing their customers. For example most of us gamers have X amount of $ that we can afford to spend on 40k each year. Now if GW releases new models for a new codex that I like im going to spend money on them, im going to buy paints, im going to be interested in other armies. In other words I dont need GW to force me to spend that money on their products by making my old stuff bad with new codexes and new editions...im going to spend that money on their products anyway. So they dont get anymore money out of me by doing this in fact they get less because they piss me off. I know I am not the only one who feels this way.


So after weighing all these factors and a few more that I dont feel like getting into I have decided to take my money and time elsewhere. Mainly im taking it to Privateer Press a company that does stay loyal to their costumers. PP is in the process of taking some of their metal products and converting them over to resin. In doing so they have actually decreased the price on some of their minis. Example: they have been taking all their old metal warbeasts for hordes and turning them into resin kits that give three options on what warbeast to make. The metal kits with one option cost $45 the new resin kits with three options cost $35. We all know that if this was GW the prices would have went up not down as they would have used the switch as an excuse for increasing prices (see: finecast).


I will be sending a copy of this to GW.....not that they will care....which is part of my point.




Now with this all off my chest I wish all of you on this forum good gaming and good health. My years on this forum have been fun I have learned alot and I hope I helped some of you guys learn somethings as well. *cheers* Heresy


Please note that I understand that this is a rant and a rather long one and that most of you dont care or disagree with most of what I said. You guys certainly have the right to your own opinions but I do ask that your responses to this thread be as well thought out as my post was. In other words try not to bash or resort to personal attacks towards me or anyone who expresses that they share my opinion.

Viscount Vash: This thread has already been reported and yes, Technically it is against the forum Rules.
Title now changed.

That said I took it as an opportunity to point out we do in fact have a Privateer Press sub-forum that could do with so input and activity.

Also as an aside it (as a thread) is starting to develop into a interesting discussion on GW verses Other Companies attitudes towards gaming, sales and product support. So for now I'm letting it slide.

This is not to say that it won't get locked later if it turns into a GW bashing trollfest.

Vash.

"I suggest a new strategy R2......Let the Wookie win."


Last edited by Viscount Vash; 01-06-13 at 12:10 PM.
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post #2 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 06:58 PM
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The prices are a joke yes. But if you have models from when there were cheaper, and you sell them on Ebay today, you are more likely to get more money than what you actually paid for them.

Personally I have been priced out of GW for some time now, I only buy models with the money I make from selling them.

Also, a lot of the bits from the DV set are awesome and very cheap on Ebay.
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post #3 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 07:33 PM
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Can I have your stuff?

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post #4 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 07:34 PM
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Technically The big Goodbye thread posting is against the rules but I'm going to ignore that for the moment.

It is a shame that GW has lost it's appeal for you but your post raises a few things I feel duty bound to point out.

40k changes as time goes by thats a given but 4 years is not enough to see the picture like some of us old farts do.

The thing with units becoming useless with a Dex release or an Edition is it is somewhat circular in nature, vehicles seem to switch from brilliant to underwhelming every edition or two, the cultists I foolishly sold with the arrival of CSM 5 are back in CSM 6.

Hell, imagine my face when Crons first came out as those nasty metal minis and I had got rid of 100 Chaos Androids for next to nothing six months before.

What I'm really saying here is stash it if you have space and don't need to finance your PP purchases with the sale of your GW army. This is why I always suggest Vanilla SMs for newer players as the minis date well and it's an army that always does ok in rule changes.

Well that enough on the GW front from me I'm not here to change your mind on that really.

On the leaving Heresy front I will try to change your mind though.

We do have a Warmachine and Hordes section here and it would be great to see it have more life in it.
https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...play.php?f=224

What better way to keep in touch with your Heretical buddies than to keep visiting and letting us know how your PP journey goes, by posting project logs, battle reports and helping us expand at the same time?

Last edited by Viscount Vash; 01-05-13 at 08:02 PM.
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post #5 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 07:56 PM
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While I agree with you about the pricing, GW has largely cornered the market. And while Privateer Press does have balanced rules compared to GW (or so I've heard) they don't have enough market share to challenge GW.

But the white council - I hear a lot of grumbling about it. It's expensive, but 4x the price of finecast HQs. So not as ridiculous as a lot of people think.

My tactics articles, if you need help making a new army, or beating one:

High Elves - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=112437

Tyranids - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=118886

New Warriors of Chaos - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...=1#post1336092


I have a new theory in life - for everything - from ethics to legal cases - it is called pre-emptive self defense.
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post #6 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 08:17 PM
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Much of what you say make sense, however.

1. The price of everything has risen, we are after all in the middle of a double dip reccesion. T make an example my weekly grocery shop now costs 95 where as it was 60 when my daughter was first born (3 years Ago)

2. GW despite being a large company is not rolling in dough. They release their financial report every year as part of there freedom of information act and despite making a profit its not a huge one.

3. Codexes change to keep the game challenging and, if you thumb through the opening pages of the 40k rulebook it eludes to the fact that GW bases most of its releases on people being able to play out a narrative rather than make competative lists.So if your a competative torni player then just like any sport or competative activity you have to be prepared to pay through the nose for the kit that you use. Im a keen golfer and a decent set of clubs come in at about 1000, which will last me roughly 4-6 years(like a codex) and if i want to keep up with the latest technology then im forced to change to compete with other players.

4 my final point is that it is also down to the gamers to shop around a bit. There are plenty of online retails and independant stockist who will do the kit at 15/20 % of cost makeing your only big outgoing your new rules sets (rulebooks/codexs).

I will finish by saying that it is always sad to see a hobbyist become disillusioned and leave the hobby, but from what iv seen on the forums your a skilled modeller and painter and have always given sound tactical advice and it will be a shame for the hobby in general that you have thrown in the towel

All the best

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post #7 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scscofield View Post
Can I have your stuff?
lol no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viscount Vash View Post
Technically The big Goodbye thread posting is against the rules but I'm going to ignore that for the moment.

It is a shame that GW has lost it's appeal for you but your post raises a few things I feel duty bound to point out.

40k changes as time goes by thats a given but 4 years is not enough to see the picture like some of us old farts do.

The thing with units becoming useless with a Dex release or an Edition is it is somewhat circular in nature, vehicles seem to switch from brilliant to underwhelming every edition or two, the cultists I foolishly sold with the arrival of CSM 5 are back in CSM 6.

Hell, imagine my face when Crons first came out as those nasty metal minis and I had got rid of 100 Chaos Androids for next to nothing six months before.

What I'm really saying here is stash it if you have space and don't need to finance your PP purchases with the sale of your GW army. This is why I always suggest Vanilla SMs for newer players as the minis date well and it's an army that always does ok in rule changes.

Well that enough on the GW front from me I'm not here to change your mind on that really.

On the leaving Heresy front I will try to change your mind though.

We do have a Warmachine and Hordes section here and it would be great to see it have more life in it.
https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...play.php?f=224

What better way to keep in touch with your Heretical buddies than to keep visiting and letting us know how your PP journey goes, by posting project logs, battle reports and helping us expand at the same time?
First im sorry about the post, its been a while since I have refreshed my self on Heresys rules, but thanks for letting me have my say and not locking my post.

As to your GW points you kind of reaffirmed my post. The fact that GW is always flip flopping with their units making them good this edition then bad the next and then good again may be ok with some people but its not for me. I have a hard time letting units that I spent my hard earned money on spent time assembling and painting sit on a shelf and collect dust waiting to be useful again.

As to heresy I guess I can try to get some conversation going in the warmachine/hordes section. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineEdge View Post
While I agree with you about the pricing, GW has largely cornered the market. And while Privateer Press does have balanced rules compared to GW (or so I've heard) they don't have enough market share to challenge GW.

But the white council - I hear a lot of grumbling about it. It's expensive, but 4x the price of finecast HQs. So not as ridiculous as a lot of people think.

True but at the same time its not a single HQ its a boxed set and their other finecast boxed sets go for $45-$55.

"I suggest a new strategy R2......Let the Wookie win."

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post #8 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 09:29 PM
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You really need to have a look at australian prices. We have more right to bag gw than anyone. I agree with most of your points but we have it worse. Believe me.

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post #9 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaantitus View Post
You really need to have a look at australian prices. We have more right to bag gw than anyone. I agree with most of your points but we have it worse. Believe me.
Hahaha! And you Sir, need to look at the New Zealand prices!

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post #10 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-05-13, 10:49 PM
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New Zealand doesn't count.
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