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post #31 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
Prices skyrocket because the very foundation of Games Workshop is that idiotic local store concept, the bufoons simply refuse to accept the internet is here and that people who are 3000 kilometres from the nearest store shouldn't be subsidizing their drapery and unnecessary staff.

But yeah, good luck with PP, they know where it's at. Balance, prices, free downloadable rules and altogether a much more in-sync-with-reality strategy. That company is going to flourish now that GW is taking turns fanraping each and every established army fanbase (except Spess Muhreens of course)

I even think PP's minis are more well made, even if the art direction is a little bit niche. It definitely grows on you.
This is what I have been trying to get across for the last year now but unfortunately GW apologists get all in your face and offended when you question their beloved company's business model.

GW is like a music record label and instead of getting with the times and selling mp3s and offering universal downloads or ad solutions on youtube they are jacking up the price of their albums. This is a true way to lose as we have seen in the entertainment industry.

The whole inflation thing is bollocks too. Their price hikes appreciate faster than inflation at the now yearly rate. With the faultering dollar I imagine business for gw is going to look much worse in 2013 outside of Europe. Unfortunately instead of finding solutions to this GW will just continue raising prices and stick to their iCrap downloads model and lose more customers to PP this year.

It's driving gamers like myself and others to recasting or using third party models for our own personal armies. What is the point of Citadel models when they cost as much as Forgeworld or high quality resin 3rd party models like Scibor?
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post #32 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 06:20 PM
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Can I have your stuff?
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post #33 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 07:25 PM
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My store manager (while I may not like him because you have to book paint stations, and there is no instore gaming unless there is an event or you have booked) is very open about a lot of GW practices, from what I've heard it's even got mor expensive for staff too, apparently the old staff discount used to literally the amount of plastic that was used, so it was dirt cheap like a Tau battlesuit was 32p or something ridiculous, now it is just 50% because resin is cheaper than plastic.

I remember the early days of apocalypse when you used to get 3 monoliths for 60, now they are like 50 each. Now I see why they would do things like make hardback codicies as it is better 'quality' but certainly not an extra 10 more. Same goes for the models, while the newest ones seem to look really good (with the obvious exceptions *cough*mutilators*cough*. I actually prefer paperback because it is a lot easier to flick through for a quick rules reference.

Another way they have tried to appear to add 'quality' is with WD. A few years ago WD was good and about 3.50, it then went down hill a lot and now they have revamped it with 'better paper' and made it 5.50 and all they have done is make similar to before (maybe better I don't know), but tried to make it look like they have more content by having practically a double page if not more for each new release.

I've now found myself going to other companies such as wayland, for discount GW stuff and ebay if it is something I'm not bothered about already painted/war beaten.

back to the OP, I am certainly very curious to see GW's reply could you possibly tell us - if they actually reply at all.

Sorry to gripe but it would seem I'm not the only one who has had enough. However it would interesting to see how many people would return to GW if they dropped the prices, I would certainly buy more direct and more often as I won't need to wait for birthdays/ Xmas to buy anything.

Me: To be honest im amazed there isn't a chaos god of not revising or at least chaos god of procrastination

MidnightSun: There will be, when enough people do it. Y'know when the Eldar were all engaging in their hedonism and Slaanesh ripped open the Eye of Terror with his creation? Slaanesh will have NOTHING on the God of Procrastination, and his vile minions will carve the galaxy asunder in a thousand year reign of blood.... Tomorrow
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post #34 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
I hate to say it, but I am in total agreement with the OP. The price rises, the "I'm Irish" tax and the crap new edition have driven me into the arms of a GW competitor for the first time in more than 20 years. I've been playing Flames of War since their 3rd edition came out early last year and find it a much better more balanced system than 6th Ed 40k.

I do find it sad that a hobby that has been a staple in my life for over 20 years has been ruined for me in the space of a year by the frankly absurd practices of GW. It's not just me either. The club I play with every Thursday has seen a massive fall off in the 40k hardcore gamers since 6th came out. This time last year there were close to 30 players taking part in a New Years league, this year, no one has shown any interest in playing at all.

I understand the whole "They're a business" argument, but one of the keys to any successful business is doing your best to hold on to your existing customers. From my experience they have done the opposite, driven away the most important customer, the veteran gamer who has a job and disposable income, as opposed to aiming at kids who might only get money or GW presents at Christmas or birthdays.
I agree with this. I don't understand their logic. So it seems that they prefer trading off veteran players for the new uncommitted players. I really don't think they are doing well in terms of business. They have to do this every edition essentially. Perhaps they regret their past actions but figure the veteran players are gone? I find it hard to believe they are doing better than when I first started. And when I first started they had crap ass models. Yet I remember during tournaments the veteran players were always the ones to buy something new and glue it up together so fast just to put it on the table. Thats old veteran players.

Warhammer has essentially become a bunch of uncommitted players with a few "returner veterans" that have kept the game alive. Its pretty much us people on the forums that have kept them alive but they are losing us one by one.

Originally Posted by Jace of Ultramar View Post
I agree with Scscofield, the enjoyment of the game (for me) far outweigh the costs. Occasionally, there is something I want and I may pick it up but not usually for the high price that certain retail outlets feature it for. An LGS in my area does offer small percentage discounts for non-direct order items. EBay is a good place to purchase, but, if the cost of item + shipping = retail price then I may just pick it up at a retail location.

Wookie, I'm sad to hear the hobby was ruined for you. I've been in that state with Magic the Gathering, which is why I play 40K now, and understand where you're coming from. However, I hope you do not leave the boards entirely.
I'm glad to here you are still having fun, but do you have friends that still come with you or meet up with you at the store? If you do, I envy you. Its not so much friends, but people that you know that have been in the game for a while, really helps motivate you when you decide whether or not you would devote more of your life to enjoying the game.
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post #35 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by falcoso View Post
My store manager (while I may not like him because you have to book paint stations, and there is no instore gaming unless there is an event or you have booked)...
I wonder, with many stores like this, what is the point of even having physical GW locations? Single company stores are just impractical these days. Why go to a tiny location that only sells one companies product like a GW when you can go to a larger hobby store which gets more traffic, has more products and often offers cheaper products.

To make matters worse GW banned selling their products online in the USA, so now it's done through email and phone calls... even so places like Miniature Market are doing great and offering 20% discounts (which I recommend if anyone is interested).

This archaic way of business reminds me of the Imperium it's self.
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post #36 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 08:11 PM
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See I would happily buy from GW with their prices if they did some kind of loyalty card system. or something. When there are various websites and such selling GW stuff cheaper what incentive is there to buy from GW. I've brought exclusively from GW my entire hobby time buying from GW - with the exception of eBay and buts sites for stuff I can't get from GW - and it's now come to a point where iI simply can't afford to buy from them.

Originally Posted by Tawa View Post

The Old World just became a fart in the bath.....
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post #37 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 09:24 PM
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a loyality system for discounts would be the ultimate way to gip the newbies and keep the loyal fans of the past, but they would have to start fresh still for everyone if they started it, which defeats the purpose kinda, but eh.
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post #38 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by falcoso View Post
My store manager (while I may not like him because you have to book paint stations, and there is no instore gaming unless there is an event or you have booked) is very open about a lot of GW practices, from what I've heard it's even got mor expensive for staff too, apparently the old staff discount used to literally the amount of plastic that was used, so it was dirt cheap like a Tau battlesuit was 32p or something ridiculous, now it is just 50% because resin is cheaper than plastic.
Not quite: there was a staff discount system that worked on weight, but it was a very long time ago. At the time staff could go into the GW warehouse in Nottingham, pick bits out of their troughs and then pay for the weight of lead/white metal (god it's sad I remember the switch to white metal) that the models contained.
No idea when that ended but I would guess sometime in the early 2000s: I still occasionally run into the odd member of staff who was working at the time... but they are rare. GW treats its staff about as well as it vets so staff turnover is kinda crazy (locally if there are more then 5 people in store chances are ex-staff outnumber staff).

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post #39 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 10:03 PM
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Really don't get what all this is about you know.

Some fun FACTS:

GW Prices are too high.

Prices in Euro
Infinity : Unit of 6 : 35.95
Warmachine: Unit of 5 : 38
GW : Unit of 5 (Grey Knights) : 27 Terminators : 36

Add to that the fact that only 1 of these companies has manufacturer owned speciality shops and while I can't comment on the Warmachine stuff I do know that Infinity Mini's have few if any options for how they can be built where the GW GK kits can be built as 4 different unit types with a butt tonne of other stuff to individualise them

GW Has lost touch with the community

Lets compare attitudes shall we?

Nothing officially from Infintiy on their website, they do maintain a forum however. I also know from personal experience that they are very approachable and amicable to submissions.

From the GW Website:
"Thank you for your interest in submitting your work to Games Workshop. Our hobby is a creative one that provides fertile ground for imaginations like yours. Every time you play a game epic stories will unfold, new characters will join the fray, planets will be saved and lands invaded. Many hobbyists want to share these experiences with us, whether that's a brand-new army you have painted, a stellar conversion of your army general, an exciting battle report you fought in or anything else. For these types of submission your first port of call should be the Games Workshop blog 'What's New Today'. See below for contact details and requirements. You can also write to the White Dwarf team at the postal address found in every issue of the magazine.

Alternatively, if you wish to make a more specific submission to Games Workshop then please see the information in each section below. These contain details of what you should send to us and what will happen to your submission. No matter what type of submission you wish to make it is important that you read and understand the following information before sending anything to Games Workshop."

From Privateer Press

"So I got this sweet idea about this new game called AwesomeSauce! a.k.a. Unsolicited Ideas.
Please do not send Privateer unsolicited ideas for well anything. Chances are we may already be working on something similar. The last thing we would want you to believe is that we stole an idea from you. If, despite our best prayers here, you decide to send something anyway understand that it will most likely be thrown out without consideration and will not be treated with any sort of confidentiality whatsoever."

You can make up your own minds on that one.

I do not have the knowledge, interest or time to compare the fluff from each of the above but would be interested to hear if there is someone who does.

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 01-06-13 at 10:05 PM.
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post #40 of 92 (permalink) Old 01-06-13, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Guys. Im really happy/sad to find out that im not the only one that feels this way. Sometimes on this forum if you say anything negative about GW you get bashed and people act like your opinion doesnt matter, so im glad that we can have an adult conversation about this.

In my original post I might have given off the impression that im a big torny player because I used the word "competative" alot.....that really isnt the case. I dont go to any big tornys, I mostly play for fun and If I do play in a torny its small local tornys. What I meant by "competative" is just a list that gives me a chance to win some games in the local environment. Unfortunately the local playgroups around me have alot of torny players and they always have ultra competitive lists, so in order for me to even have a chance my lists has to be at least semi-competitive. I know some people say that winning and losing isnt important as long as you have fun....and while there is some truth to that, getting creamed every time you play drains the fun out of the game. I feel like this game has become Magic the Gathering where it usually is I have more money than you so I win.

As to people who are concerned about me leaving the hobby.....dont worry im not. 40k isnt the hobby, wargaming is. Im just choosing to take my money to a different company. Im still going to thoroughly enjoy the hobby of wargaming.

As to comparing the cost of 40k to Warmachine/Hordes it isnt even close. Sure you can pick out this GW kit and that PP kit and say wow you get more in the GW kit for the same amount of money, but your PP models get you alot higher % of what you need to play a game for that same amount of money. For instance I got to play in my first Warmachine/Hordes torny today at a pretty standard point cost. My total army for this torny cost me about $100 and I ended up placing 3rd out of 12 players. So I was able to play competitively for only $100 something you could never do with 40K.

Originally Posted by falcoso View Post

back to the OP, I am certainly very curious to see GW's reply could you possibly tell us - if they actually reply at all.
I will let you guys know.

"I suggest a new strategy R2......Let the Wookie win."

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