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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-06-12, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Default Tempted to whip up some Chaos, need advice

I've always been keen to get some Tzeentch/ Nurgle going in 40K, as I like their style and painting options. But I know some people frown on (is there something in the rules or background which makes it impossible?) multi-god armies.

I am strictly disinterested in both Khorne and Slaanesh, and I could never build an army without both a marked Tzeentch and Nurgle influence at the same time. Is this bad?

I am not really interested in the new models as such, except for the things from Dark Vengeance (I absolutely abhor the look of the mini-titan and heldrake, when I first saw them I violently facepalmed and it still hurts) but I AM interested in new rules, as any interest I used to have in Chaos in the past was slain by a quick glance at the poor codex (not just in strict rules and stats, but in flavour!)


Here's my list of questions:

-Would I be booed off the stage using a Nurgle/ Tzeentch army?

-People recommended to get flamers of Tzeentch. I like the idea of them, but are they in the codex? Shouldn't they be in the Chaos Daemons book? As far as I know there's no new Chaos Daemons book. So what makes flamers good now after being turds for a decade? Or was the release a trademark GW stealth operation?

-Are there animosity rules? Would my army swallow itself if I put Typhus with a squad of Tzeentch marked chosen as if I just divided the universe by zero?


Basically, the models and concepts I like are these:

-cultists (preferrably lots)
-Typhus WILL BE a part of my army and that's final! I don't care if he sucks (?)
-Thousand Sons
-Plague Marines
-Kinda like the Helbrute but wouldn't want more than one
-Chosen of Tzeentch and Nurgle (obviously in separate units)
-I like both types of jetpacking CSM. Are they useful?
-Flamers of Tzeentch

How could I fashion an army out of this? Can I?

And what could I get for good, cost-effective, anti-tank that IS NOT the stupid looking mini-titan thing, stupid looking bird made out of compacted trash and clockwork, land raiders and defiler?

If I have to have any of those units to be able to kill tanks I would rather blow the whole thing off. I heard Chaos got the Vindicator now, is it as good as the SM one? Predators could work too (though with heavy conversion as the default look of them out of the box are ugly to me)

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I've had recurring nightmares
That I was loved for who I am
And missed the opportunity
To become a better man
~MUSE - Hoodoo

Last edited by MetalHandkerchief; 12-06-12 at 04:12 PM.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-06-12, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I've always been keen to get some Tzeentch/ Nurgle going in 40K, as I like their style and painting options. But I know some people frown on (is there something in the rules or background which makes it impossible?) multi-god armies.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I am strictly disinterested in both Khorne and Slaanesh, and I could never build an army without both a marked Tzeentch and Nurgle influence at the same time. Is this bad?
It limits your tactical options; however I have been hammered by mono-God armies so it will do not more than force you to think harder.

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Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-Would I be booed off the stage using a Nurgle/ Tzeentch army?
Not by anyone I know

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-People recommended to get flamers of Tzeentch. I like the idea of them, but are they in the codex? Shouldn't they be in the Chaos Daemons book? As far as I know there's no new Chaos Daemons book. So what makes flamers good now after being turds for a decade? Or was the release a trademark GW stealth operation?
Flamers are from Codex: Daemons.

You could take them as allies.

GW released an official update booklet which altered Flamers (mostly for the better) with White dwarf earlier in the year.

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Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-Are there animosity rules? Would my army swallow itself if I put Typhus with a squad of Tzeentch marked chosen as if I just divided the universe by zero?
Not quite that bad. However an independent character with a mark may not join a unit with a different mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
And what could I get for good, cost-effective, anti-tank that IS NOT the stupid looking mini-titan thing, stupid looking bird made out of compacted trash and clockwork, land raiders and defiler?
Havocs are not bad.

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Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I heard Chaos got the Vindicator now, is it as good as the SM one?
CSM Vindicator has more options so might even be better.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-06-12, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-Would I be booed off the stage using a Nurgle/ Tzeentch army?
Certainly not! Multi-God armies are by no means objected to. Sure, Nurgle and Tzeentch don't get along on the best of terms, but I'm sure a Tzeentchi manipulator wouldn't be above furthering his own plans be making a slightly distasteful alliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-People recommended to get flamers of Tzeentch. I like the idea of them, but are they in the codex? Shouldn't they be in the Chaos Daemons book? As far as I know there's no new Chaos Daemons book. So what makes flamers good now after being turds for a decade? Or was the release a trademark GW stealth operation?
Flamers are indeed in the Chaos Daemons codex, and they got just such a trademark GW stealth operation in the form of them and Screamers getting a White Dwarf "official update" that made them both overpowered to near the point of unstoppability. Sure, you'd need to have Daemon allies, but a squad of 9 Screamers for 207 points can easily destroy anything in the game except flyers. Plus the HQ and Troops tax--something like a Herald of Tzeentch on a Chariot and a squad of Plaguebearers would fit in with your Nurgle/Tzeentch theme, not cost too much, and be pretty much the most effective way to go about it, too. Also consider Screamers, buffed in the same way: they get 3 S5, Armorbane attacks each (plus charge bonus)--that'll wreck any tank, easy--or can turbo-boost over enemies and cause D3 hits each, free, no Overwatch. Basically Tzeentchi Daemons are in right now (Horrors are go-to troops since Bloodletters got mega-nerfed by 6e; Fateweaver, the Blue Scribes and Chariot Tzeralds are some of their best HQ choices; and Screamers/Flamers dominate the FA/Elites slots).

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Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-Are there animosity rules? Would my army swallow itself if I put Typhus with a squad of Tzeentch marked chosen as if I just divided the universe by zero?
A character with one mark can't join a unit with a different mark. Other than that, no restrictions. Lords w/ MoN/S/K and Sorcs w/ MoT make their associated Cult squads Troops rather than Elites, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
And what could I get for good, cost-effective, anti-tank that IS NOT the stupid looking mini-titan thing, stupid looking bird made out of compacted trash and clockwork, land raiders and defiler?
The Defiler only has a battle cannon--not altogether effective anti-tank in the first place.

For anti-tank...I'd go meltaguns. And Las/AC Havocs. And possibly allied Screamers/Flamers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
I heard Chaos got the Vindicator now, is it as good as the SM one? Predators could work too (though with heavy conversion as the default look of them out of the box are ugly to me)
Uh, Chaos had the Vindicator last codex. Yeah, they still have it, and I'd say it's actually better than the Loyalist version: you can buy Daemonic Possession to make it ignore shaken/stunned results, if need be, and always be able to fire. Plus a combi-bolter for cheap to halve the chance of "weapon destroyed."

Preds are an option too, though I prefer the cheaper Dakkapred (heavy bolters sponsons, autocannon turret) to the Laspred.

CSM Plog, Tactica

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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-06-12, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys, looks like I will be taking the plunge.

I already have a sorcerer on disc, a nurgle lord (which will be backup for whenever I play with 4 HQ slots) and a thousand sons squad.

I guess I'll get some chaos dark vengeance lot on ebay to start with, and Typhus. Then I have some old loyalist Rhinos I can mess up :D

The bad news I can't start on the nurgle side of things until next year, as army painter recalled the Necrotic Flesh spray and won't restock it until then... Does anyone know of a similar other brand colour? And don't say Montana because I can't get that in Norway

I've had recurring nightmares
That I was loved for who I am
And missed the opportunity
To become a better man
~MUSE - Hoodoo
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-06-12, 06:49 PM
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I agree with both Mossy and the Hobbit. I also recommend they either start a detective agency or police team with those nicknames.

Chosen of Tzeentch don't work well. It isn't worth the mark of Tzeentch for a 6+ invulnerable save, especially since it means giving up one of the other marks. You're better off keeping all the Chosen with Nurgle, or using Terminators with mark of tzeentch, which make much better use of the improved invulnerable save.

Typhus isn't bad at all, just a little expensive. Just be sure to keep him away from enemy force weapons and powerfists/klaws. Also, if you're using Typhus, I'd use zombie cultists. They're quite effective (for their cost) and a lot of fun.

I've never used Warp Talons or seen anyone use them effectively. Not saying it isn't possible, just saying I've never seen it. Raptors are usable, but all things considered aren't as effective as bikes. Bikes can do a lot more, give you +1 toughness, and don't cost much more than Raptors.

Flamers/Screamers are now amazing, but you need to ally daemons in to use them, so it's only possible at high point levels.

Hellbrute got a cost reduction in the errata. At 100 points, it's cheap and effective. Just don't expect too much of them. I usually use them as a distraction, so my opponent's shooting at something else besides my rhinos. And if he ignores the hellbrute, I get within melta/assault range and go to town.

Good luck!

...

The first casualty of war is neither innocence nor truth.

The first casualty of war is always subtlety.


Last edited by mynameisgrax; 12-06-12 at 06:52 PM.
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-07-12, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
-Would I be booed off the stage using a Nurgle/ Tzeentch army?
Only by the most puritan Chaos players that see an alliance between two gods that hate each other as the most extreme heresy. Just go for it.

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Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
How could I fashion an army out of this? Can I?
I think a "Hammer and Anvil" strategy applies well to such a force: Plague Zombies and Marines to defend objectives and take in the charge, while Thousand Sons, Havocs, Warp Talons and Tzeentch Terminators bring fire-power and overall killiness to the enemy.

Regarding the Warp Talons I think they can be great if they don't come in too early, as any small Deep Striking assault squad that is not wearing Terminator armour. DS them near an isolated shooty unit, Blind them and go for the kill next turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief View Post
And what could I get for good, cost-effective, anti-tank that IS NOT the stupid looking mini-titan thing, stupid looking bird made out of compacted trash and clockwork, land raiders and defiler?
Lascannon Havocs. 220 points for 10 of them with 4 Lascannons. They have never let me down. And if you really want that Vendetta to go down, get them an Aegis with Icarus Lascannon.

Check out my army: Iron Warriors 44th company

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