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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Default Flying Monstrous Creatures - The New Overrated Black?

Hey everyone.

I'm just curious about why the hell everyone has lost their heads over Flying Monstrous Creatures?

Sure their rules are new and fancy, but they aren't exactly game winning. Everyone expects that they can use 5 FMC's and simply fly around Vector Striking the enemy to death, with the odd bit of shooting being included as well.

Vecter Strike is only D3 + 1 Hits, that's not exactly alot now is it? 5 MC's can't even wipe out 20 Termagaunts in a Turn via Vector Striking.

Then there is the swoop and glide options. If your swooping yes you can only be hit on a 6+, but you lose one of your shooting attacks, and you can still be shot out of the sky through massed fire.

I just do not see what the big deal is, and why 'Flying Circus' lists are popping up all over the place.

Flying for Monstrous Creatures Rules are a nice addition to Units like Bloodthirsters, Daemon Princes and Flyrantsexisting profiles, and gives them a few neat options, but nothing that is game winning.

Yet people seem to have got it in their heads that FMC's will constantly be circling and decimating enemy armies while they helplessly try to shoot them from the sky, while you laugh maniacally. I just don't see how this is ever going to be the case.

For me, Flying for my Bloodthirsters or Daemon Princes is a primarily defensive tactic designed to get them out of harms way quick and to help them survive a round of heavy shooting. Other than that I still use mine as I always have (with the exception of taking on enemy Fliers too).

Anyone else agree? Or am I missing something?
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:23 PM
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People getting excited about a new gimmick. This happens all the time really. Give it until the next codex release and we'll see ANOTHER new gimmick instead.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:31 PM
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It's really meta choices, For Daemons Flying Monstrous Creatures will be popular as they're really you're best chance for downing Zooming Flyers with Vector Strike (Well for Blood Thirsters anyway as they're really the only ones strong enough to do much)

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:32 PM
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Flying is a radical change in rules and some people view change as an edge; however this misses two points:

(1) Many opponents read the internet so could well go heavily anti-flyer;

(2) Probability beats desire.

I foresee a period of many rapidly changing "guaranteed victory" flying and anti-flying lists, followed by a return to balance as the most common internet list strategy.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
Flying is a radical change in rules and some people view change as an edge; however this misses two points:

(1) Many opponents read the internet so could well go heavily anti-flyer;

(2) Probability beats desire.

I foresee a period of many rapidly changing "guaranteed victory" flying and anti-flying lists, followed by a return to balance as the most common internet list strategy.
Yeah, I agree, I have only started taking a Bloodthirster in an effort to counter the real Flyers that everyone and his mum is taking these days, not to take advantage of new spiffy FMC rules.

They are a nice addition, that open up a few tactics and/or gambits, but they don't influence my opinion of the model too much. In fact I'm considering dropping my Daemon Princes in favour of x3 Soul Grinders this Edition.

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Originally Posted by Aramoro View Post
It's really meta choices, For Daemons Flying Monstrous Creatures will be popular as they're really you're best chance for downing Zooming Flyers with Vector Strike (Well for Blood Thirsters anyway as they're really the only ones strong enough to do much)
Yep, this is my thinking too.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:40 PM
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The rules look fairly unfavorable to me. Mostly because of Grounded tests. Any time they get *hit* (that's hit, not wounded) by shooting in Swoop mode, they have a 33% chance of going splat and losing their mobility and almost certainly a wound. T4 creatures like the Parasite of Mortrex get insta-gibbed.

Very glass cannon. Swooping is powerful but also extremely risky. I suspect these lists will get brought back to earth (pun intended) when people start reading and playing the rules properly. Flying MCs are good, but not dominant.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 04:56 PM
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Yet people seem to have got it in their heads that FMC's will constantly be circling and decimating enemy armies while they helplessly try to shoot them from the sky, while you laugh maniacally. I just don't see how this is ever going to be the case.
Ran a thirster, fate, and a flying DP in my last game at 1850 vs a necron list with 3 flyers. That is exactly what happened. The thirster vector'd both doomscythes off the table, fate swooped over squads doing massive damage (and even boon'd a ctan). The dp passed 3/3 grounding tests, but was shot out of the air by turn 3. Nothing else in the list beyond fiends did real damage (fatecrusher list with 12 crushers, all they did was corner them in a corner when the game ended). After the game, my opponent said 'well now I know why you hate flyers so much, thats really annoying'.

Overpowered? no. Gimmicky? sortof, for now. People will adapt, more skyfire/flyers will surface. I don't think the flying circus lists will be competitive at all, because 1 failed grounding test and it's toasted (assuming he has units to pounce on it during the assault phase). As Dave T said, the internet praising and spamming FMC lists are just knee jerk reactions to new rules and trying to abuse them before people learn how to counter them. FMC are good to have, but centering your list around them and banking on them to do all the work isn't a good idea.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiocat110 View Post
The rules look fairly unfavorable to me. Mostly because of Grounded tests. Any time they get *hit* (that's hit, not wounded) by shooting in Swoop mode, they have a 33% chance of going splat and losing their mobility and almost certainly a wound. T4 creatures like the Parasite of Mortrex get insta-gibbed.

Very glass cannon. Swooping is powerful but also extremely risky. I suspect these lists will get brought back to earth (pun intended) when people start reading and playing the rules properly. Flying MCs are good, but not dominant.
Except the parasite is jump infantry...
They make some of the MCs like the Bloodthirster a lot more threatening, if for no other reason that it can close with the enemy a lot faster when swooping.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravner298 View Post
As Dave T said, the internet praising and spamming FMC lists are just knee jerk reactions to new rules and trying to abuse them before people learn how to counter them. FMC are good to have, but centering your list around them and banking on them to do all the work isn't a good idea.
Well I said it too, but I guess it wasn't as well spoken or something.

This is a common thing when it comes to 40K advice on the internet that I've noticed. It's how we ended up with Draigowing becoming a thing, and how lists like Leafblower and Razorspam occur. The internet finds a list with no immediate counter and immediately assumes it's the best thing since a orgasm machine and hails this list. This usually continues until a FAQ fixes whatever was being misused (Conga-Lining Scarabs for example) or until something newer and shinier comes along.

Now granted, some people will continue to push that same "amazing" list. I mean Stelek (as an example because everyone knows generally who he is) still posts lists that have maybe 3 distinct units copy and pasted three or four times and calls them the best thing ever and the best way to win the game.

Internet meta isn't about balanced lists or handling local meta or teaching people to play well (or even giving them ways to use whatever they want out of a codex. It's not a matter of power sometimes, it's a matter of helping people use things they prefer) and that's something that bugs me. It's one of the reasons I'm taking so long to work on the Sisters tactica (that and I need the Aeronautica book that I ordered today); I don't want to just tell people "take this, not that" but instead "if you like this, this is what it's good at and some ways you can equip it" so people can take advantage of their options to the fullest instead of glossing over something they like or have models for just because someone on the internet says it's bad and they should NEVER use it.

TL;DR: The internet is silly, and we need people to stop telling people what not to use but instead how to use it.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 05:58 PM
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Well I said it too, but I guess it wasn't as well spoken or something.
Didn't mean to leave ya out there zion, I would of remembered your input if you didnt change your avatar on me

The way I see it, the daemon codex is pretty shitty. Giving us some buffs in one way or another is all welcome. Of course, saying this to a sisters player is probably the equivalent of us opening presents on christmas morning while the SOB player sits outside in the snow staring in with a sad face.
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