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post #1 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Default Most improved & gimped units of 6th Edition

Now that 6th edition is been out for a bit. If you guys could list units that got the shaft and units that got improved quite a bit. I will start off with most improved as
Vendettas
Special units that you can upgrade in a squad with a better armor save
Terminators

Got the shaft
Plague bearers (no more going to ground) 5+ FNP
Scouts outflanking, specifically space wolf scouts as they no longer can assault right away
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post #2 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 07:49 PM
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I think these sorts of things need to be quantified honestly. Just slapping "nerf" or "OP" on something is easy if you don't have to explain why.

The Exorcist got a LOT better. With people being forced to pen it to have a chance to stop it from shooting, the ability to move 12" and then snap fire (oh, hai flyers!) and AP1 giving +2 on the Pen chart this thing is now capable of MURDERING vehicles, something it wasn't bad at before, but is a lot better at now.

On the flip side the Heavy Flamer Immolator is now worse than ever since you can't move past 6" without losing the ability to fire the Heavy Flamer. It really needs the Torrent Rule or the Fast rule with the Heavy Flamer to make up that high points cost, and it has neither.
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post #3 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 08:47 PM
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This might not be the place to post this, but i feel like ap1 hasn't gotten any better this edition. beforehand when a 5 and 6 were both destroyed, ap1 only needed a 4+ to destroy a vehicle. Now they still need a 4+ because only a 6 is destroyed.

Although, i feel as though ap3+ have gotten a nerf on vehicle killing (except for ap-, which always needed a 6)

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post #4 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 08:48 PM
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Gimped:
Stealers- no more outflank assault makes them bolter bait... expensive bolter bait at that.

Ymgarls- same reasons, but at leats a 4+ save might hold up a little longer.

Howling Banshees- ok, they were shit before, but now they get hit by the reduction in power weapons, fleet and area terrain they'll be even worse then ever. I'm not sure why anyone would take them over scorpions.


Improved:
All fliers...

Necrons- gauss is horrendous against vehicles, tesla is immense when disembarking fast moving transports or overwatching, harbingers of transmogrification with seismic crucibles are almost impossible to assault (tremor stave means enemies will be in difficult terrain and crucible gives -D3"... so that's roll 3D6, pick the lowest 2 and lose D3. Gives an average of a 3-4" charge).... .... that's all before we get onto almost all of their vehicles suddenly getting 5+ cover saves for moving and characters becoming utterly unsurpassed with 2+/3++ protecting whole units from enemy shooting and MSS making them favorites over anything in a challenge.

Barrage Weapons- quite nasty before, now totally lethal. I expect any army that can field decent barrage weapons to take them as an auto-choice. I'm using griffons and will soon take mortars too... the first is lethal and I'm expecting the same outta the second.



BUT... for the prize of most improved single unit you simple can't overlook one absolute modelling classic: loved by few, hated by any that have ever assembled one... the humble Thunderfire Cannon.

In 5th the thunderfire was a supreme glass hammer: able to cut down huge swathes of enemy but never expected to live through the first enemy shooting phase. Well in 6th its utterly horrendous, with the same offensive abilities but now, instead of being AV10 with no cover (or very difficult) and onyl a glance needing to kill it its T7 2W with 3+ save and not only does it get a cover save but since you are fielding a techmarine chances are you'll upgrade its cover, giving a likely 3+ cover save to boot.
I've only faced one so far in 6th... and trust me when I say that no other single unit scares me quite so much (except possible a Leman Russ Executioner).

EDIT- @CattleBruiser: you're right. The damage table is the same except Ap3-6 is now equivalent to AP-.... other then that the only difference with 5th is that 'destroyed' results would now explode instead. I don't know why they didn't just keep the old table and make AP3-6 -1 on the roll... but it would have been simpler.


Last edited by Tim/Steve; 07-28-12 at 08:50 PM.
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post #5 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 08:58 PM
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All artillery got a nice boost, which was sorely needed since no one would ever take them before.



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post #6 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CattleBruiser View Post
This might not be the place to post this, but i feel like ap1 hasn't gotten any better this edition. beforehand when a 5 and 6 were both destroyed, ap1 only needed a 4+ to destroy a vehicle. Now they still need a 4+ because only a 6 is destroyed.

Although, i feel as though ap3+ have gotten a nerf on vehicle killing (except for ap-, which always needed a 6)
On a 1 you Stun, on a 2-3 you Weapon Destroy and on a 4+ it explodes. That's a 50% to kill, and even if you miss that you make the tank less effective while taking a hull point off as well.

Sure it's not uber awesome sauce, but it's still good, and in some respects better because you can't glance and roll on the chart so you'll never shake a vehicle with AP1 weapons.

@Tim/Steve - nice point on the Thunderfire Cannon. And now that's it's Finecast it's more likely to actually see the table.

Another one for the improved section: Squadrons. No longer is getting an Immobilized Result going to nuke a tank for free. I'm sure the Guard players love this since most of their tanks can hit you without moving from the rear board edge anyways.

Last edited by Zion; 07-28-12 at 09:41 PM.
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post #7 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 09:58 PM
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I'd say the most nerfed of any units that I know of are close combat eldar units. except for harlequins which are still nasty.

Howling banshees are only ap 3, were barely worth it last edition, but with never being able to assault from a wave serpent, they are practically useless.

striking scorpions were nerfed as well since they can't outflank and assault. they weren't wacked with the nerf bat as hard since they are more survivable.

A unit that has greatly benefitted from the new rules are meganobs. Now they can finally wade through most things with out breaking a sweat. the only problem with them is I see more powerfists in my local area.
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post #8 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 10:26 PM
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with the bonuses to tanks, squadrons and blast weapons, i would think that squadrons of 3 LRBT will be very good

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post #9 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzawakka View Post
Plague bearers (no more going to ground) 5+ FNP

plaguebearers did get the FnP reduction up the ass at first glance, but they now get it against more things, and it's all the sweeter when you get epidemius's tally up for the 3+. they can also take chaos marines as allies to make this easier with shooting capabilities. as for going to ground, why would you? they are a tarpit, and making them unable to assault or attack back is doing it wrong.

the most major buff i have seen is that sanguinary guard NO LONGER SUCK!!! the 2+ armour and PW changes means that they wont die easily to some weaboo sergeant with a power weapon, and jump packs are even better now. also, feel no pain has the ability to make them pseudo flying terminators unless they are getting shot with S8+.

mephiston is still aweshum, as even though fleet isnt as great, and he is only AP3 (cant they just make him an MC?(please)), psychic powers got amazing, and having no invuln isnt as important when a 2+ armour is so much better. and hes T6 with 5 wounds, which he has a 33% chance of being able to regenerate if he rolls 3 times on biomancy-and you had better do that, cuz mephiston+iron arm, warp speed, and life leech=OMFGWTFBBQPWNED

as for nerfs...

death company dreadnoughts arent as great, because ignoring shakens and stuns doesnt matter much when glances don't inflict them, and instead rip you apart.


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post #10 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-28-12, 11:06 PM
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Yeah, squadrons of Leman Russ are quite an attractive thought- a fully decked out executioner is pretty expensive and will be target number 1 for the enemy, but is a lot more survivable if you just buy another LRBT to shove in front of it and take all the hits first...
... or buy 3 LRs and spiral them so that whatever direction the enemy comes from they'll be facing AV14.

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