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View Poll Results: Xenos too insignificant in the new BRB?
Totally. Xenos races are completely underrepresented. 26 55.32%
Nope. Just the right balance of humans and xenos. 21 44.68%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Some of the battles they made are pretty amazing though. That space battle is like omg titties.
This......

My jaw fell completely off my head when I saw some of the battlefields they created.

4,220 CSM
2,320 Necrons
1,870 eldar
1,000 witch hunters (trying to get rid of this)
1,000 SM (trying to get rid of this)
680 Tau (newest addition)
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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
Add more:

-Fluff about not-humans
-Battlefield pictures
-Missions
-Battle reports

Fun fact. In every single picture that contains more than one army, one of the armies will invariably be human.
Long story short: I'd vote for a third option, an extra helping of xenos, not a deluge of them.


Long story long:
Xeno-Fluff: Here's the problem: The entire game is written from the standpoint of humans, always has been, probably always will be. And to be certain its not a bad thing. Even in the codices of other armies it is often written from the outside, from the human perspective. Now should they include more fluff info on those other races? Sure! But it will necessarily be based largely on the human element - if for no other reason than all of us reading it are human.

However I don't think that shouldn't devalue those little vignettes narrated by say, an Eldar about to kill some Orks or fork over the booty to some daemon. But for instance they can't really write from Tyranid perspective very well. It would end up sounding entirely too much like cookie monster goes to war, "Om nom nom *stab!* om nom nom *sneak* om nom nom *shoot!*" etc.

- Battlefield pictures: Aces! More please. The more dynamic miniature set-ups the better. They're inspiring both to the gamer in me and the painter/hobbyist, and are usually awesome.

- Missions: I presume you mean rules for missions. I've been playing off and on since the early 90's, and no matter what missions have been included, most people I have come across just want to play a stand up fight. Often because the other missions are poorly designed, unbalanced, or stupid. Not all but every editions has more than a fair number of stinker missions.

- Battle Reports: this is an absolute impossibility. You might wishlist it, but anything other than the most generic game (e.g. not a game worth reading about) comes dangerously close to creating dissonance between the main rulebook and the codices. During any given edition what, about half the codices get rewritten, maybe more? Which threatens to lock the writers into certain models, fluff, rules, etc. How strange would it be if the battle report in the rulebook followed one set of paradigms but a year later that same army plays significantly differently?

Battle reports are a non-starter from a corporate marketing perspective. And that is also not a bad thing. By not having any long form/written battle reports the authors can focus on the rules, the fluff, and showcasing models. Sure models change and get converted. But that is a lot less confusing than a 'conversion' of the rules. A new player who reads the rule book and sees a battle report with an army playing out in a certain way SHOULD be able to expect that is how the army plays - if it has been rewritten in the interim, that is likely not the case. Besides battle reports are better off in white dwarf anyway; being periodical is the perfect way to produce that sort of narrative tied to a particular rules set at a specific time without unduly tying the writers to it.

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
Battle reports are a non-starter from a corporate marketing perspective. And that is also not a bad thing. By not having any long form/written battle reports the authors can focus on the rules, the fluff, and showcasing models. Sure models change and get converted. But that is a lot less confusing than a 'conversion' of the rules. A new player who reads the rule book and sees a battle report with an army playing out in a certain way SHOULD be able to expect that is how the army plays - if it has been rewritten in the interim, that is likely not the case. Besides battle reports are better off in white dwarf anyway; being periodical is the perfect way to produce that sort of narrative tied to a particular rules set at a specific time without unduly tying the writers to it.
If they made the battle report necrons vs grey knights there would be no chance of the codices changing before the next edition I think.

4,220 CSM
2,320 Necrons
1,870 eldar
1,000 witch hunters (trying to get rid of this)
1,000 SM (trying to get rid of this)
680 Tau (newest addition)
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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 02:46 PM
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Eleven, I think you are probably right. But I suspect GW wouldn't want to use those codices. Not that they aren't good or current, but on further consideration they would probably want the battle report to include their most iconographic armies typically orks and vanilla space marines.

To be fair, GW might be trying to expand that mental/marketing recognition foot print further. It looks like the new starter set is Dark Angels and Chaos, and Chaos while very striking isn't the most recognizable part of 40k. If they are making a concerted effort to raise the visibility and profiles of the xenos and 'bad guys' then I could be wrong.

All of that said I think they end up having to choose from a matrix of codices that are new enough to not change, and identifiable enough that they represent that spirit of the game to new players.

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
That is actually what I wanted ultimately, the book is absolutely colossal but only like the first fifth of it is rules. The rest is about the imperium and how jawesome Space Marines are.
When first getting into the 40k scene this is exactly what turned me off of any Space Marine army period. I've always felt that GW pushes the Space Marines on people and it drives me nuts.

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
*snip*
I think Kreuger hits the nail on the head completely. 40K is all about humanity and it's struggle between itself and the constant threat of other races (some who insist they know what's best (Tau), some who will push you in front of a bus if it suits their needs (Eldar), some who will push you in front of a bus and then drive said bus over you (Dark Eldar), some who just make a mess of everything and want to fight more than anything else (Orks) and some who want to use planets as a galactic drive through (Tyranids)) who are neutral at best, and hostile at worst to humanity.

That isn't to say that it couldn't use more Xenos stuff in the book, but I definitely don't want to see it being more Xenos than everything else.
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 08:57 PM
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Who cares where GW put the emphasis in the rulebook, xenos still have the most OP armies in both 5th and 6th, with necrons and darkeldar being probably the most represented armies in many areas as they have the easiest access to powerful lists.

<img src="https://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/888.gif" alt="Broken Daemon Image" /><br><a
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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 09:02 PM
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Who cares where GW put the emphasis in the rulebook, xenos still have the most OP armies in both 5th and 6th, with necrons and darkeldar being probably the most represented armies in many areas as they have the easiest access to powerful lists.


Oh wait....you're serious aren't you?



Seriously, "most powerful build"? Sure some older armies aren't as strong right off the bat, but it doesn't mean they can't win or can't be effective. I've yet to beat Venomspam Dark Eldar, but I've yet to lose against them with my Sisters, and according to internet wisdom I should lose every time.

Build your army to be a solid all-comers to play the missions. If you can't beat a specific build (especially an internet list) you probably just need to rethink how you approach your army and how you play it.
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 09:59 PM
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With all the new rules for shooting and limitations on assult i feel the game is starting to lose its shine of fun and is starting to look like GW is cutting fun to max out on profits. Thats the main problem i've been dealing with besides building up and army designed for assult and close quarters

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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-13-12, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Uh, what? What limitations?

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