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post #91 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-15-08, 09:19 AM
 
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Defensive weapons have to be S4, to balance the new changes.

People were complaining that tanks were too fragile in 4th Ed, so GW made them tougher - new glancing/penetrating hit tables and cover saves. This is good, because you don't end up with tanks getting popped before they can even move/fire like you do now.

But to balance it they had to make them weaker to close combat (because otherwise tanks would be too powerful, and at least engaging a tank in CC requires some forethought and tactics to arrange), which is why CC units hit tanks on their rear armor automatically. And why defensive weapons are S4 - because if you want to fire all your guns you run the risk of CC squads hitting you automatically when they reach you. Thems tactics.

Without these changes, tanks would be unstoppable, moving 6" away from approaching CC squads every turn while firing every weapon AND being extremely difficult to kill from range.
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post #92 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-15-08, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Sort of. The Predator is a heavy weapons platform, but it's meant to be mobile and keep pace with the advance of Tactical Squads. The sponsons are machine spirit-controlled so the crew of two can specifically focus on driving the vehicle and using the main weapon to support the advance. Sitting around in a firing line really isn't the kind of thing Space Marines do, even though people may play it that way.

I agree, Predators will be making fewer appearances in a lot of armies-- but I think that's just going to be because you'll be able to accomplish what you bring a Predator for now with a Razorback, just not as effectively.
If the sponsons are machine-spirit controlled why do they us a SM BS of 4 when in the codex the machine-spirit has a BS of 2?

I have Land Raiders in my army which have no option of not disgarding the twinned linked heavy bolters and in effect has 3 main weapons but I've worked out a way that they can be used still.

It just seems to me that people aren't used to using there common sense and now the 5th edition rules has added that aspect they are pretty much stuffed.

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post #93 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-15-08, 11:05 PM
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Well I'm afraid I speak my mind if people don't like it thats there problem.
That was not anything aimed at you. The advice you gave won't wotk for certain people is all. i didn't say it was bad advice or anything like that.....
I've tried using a few 5th. ed rules in my games and I just want to apologise for the arguement earlier in this thread.... They are a lot easier than before, just need getting used to.... No offence intended from earlier

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post #94 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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That was not anything aimed at you. The advice you gave won't wotk for certain people is all. i didn't say it was bad advice or anything like that.....
I've tried using a few 5th. ed rules in my games and I just want to apologise for the arguement earlier in this thread.... They are a lot easier than before, just need getting used to.... No offence intended from earlier
None taken.........

5th edition is easier to use and it will take time to get used to using some of the rule changes. It has always been the same when there are rule changes, you will get your bitching and moaning and you will get those who will try to find loopholes to use to there advantage but thats all part of the game.

The best thing to come out of it those is the fact you will no longer have the armies consisting of 2 five scout squads with elite and fast attack uber armies because basically they won't get nowhere fast, but I'm sure somebody somewhere will find a way round that.

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post #95 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 12:50 PM
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None taken.........

5th edition is easier to use and it will take time to get used to using some of the rule changes. It has always been the same when there are rule changes, you will get your bitching and moaning and you will get those who will try to find loopholes to use to there advantage but thats all part of the game.

The best thing to come out of it those is the fact you will no longer have the armies consisting of 2 five scout squads with elite and fast attack uber armies because basically they won't get nowhere fast, but I'm sure somebody somewhere will find a way round that.


While it isn't something I do personally, an opponent having two 5 man scout squads isn't unbalancing. I also don't see how fast attacks are uber, since you can have at most 3 fast attack choices...

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post #96 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 01:44 PM
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While it isn't something I do personally, an opponent having two 5 man scout squads isn't unbalancing. I also don't see how fast attacks are uber, since you can have at most 3 fast attack choices...
usually you cannot take the three choices without Min/Maxing. What he refers to is taking two space marine scout squads at 5 scouts each, then taking 3 maxed out assault squads, 3 maxed out devastator squads and a terminator in a pear tree. This is unbalanced, and extremely inappropriate from a fluff perspective..

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post #97 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 02:27 PM
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usually you cannot take the three choices without Min/Maxing. What he refers to is taking two space marine scout squads at 5 scouts each, then taking 3 maxed out assault squads, 3 maxed out devastator squads and a terminator in a pear tree. This is unbalanced, and extremely inappropriate from a fluff perspective..

I can see how it would be annoying, but not unbeatable.
But I do agree about the fluff bit; I'm nae familiar with this list, since no-one I know fields such a thing.

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post #98 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 06:03 PM
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Does anybody know about ordnance LoS? In 4th. if they didn't have LoS they roll 2d6 scatter but now as they roll 2d6 anyway do they not subtract BS or do they roll 3d6?

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post #99 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Vrykolas2k View Post
I can see how it would be annoying, but not unbeatable.
But I do agree about the fluff bit; I'm nae familiar with this list, since no-one I know fields such a thing.
usually, such a force will be able to be beaten because it is fielded by an inexperienced player interested only in building a force with as many "powerful' units as possible. In the hands of an experienced player, who understands tactics, it will be difficult to beat.

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post #100 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-16-08, 07:02 PM
 
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usually, such a force will be able to be beaten because it is fielded by an inexperienced player interested only in building a force with as many "powerful' units as possible. In the hands of an experienced player, who understands tactics, it will be difficult to beat.
that pretty much holds true with any list though. The thing is I really haven't seen an experienced player (who is actually good) field something like that. Typically your balanced lists are the ones that win a tournament.
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