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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 07:27 PM
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I'm happy with 6th edition, even though it nerfed my kan wall, and my mechdar. but I have enough orks to bring in a decent horde. and luckily my eldar are small, so now i can change gears without anything lost.

oops, I forgot, this is the interwebs... I mean my hobby is ruined!!! Now I can forget all the problems that 5th had and proclaim it the best edition.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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I'm happy with 6th edition, even though it nerfed my kan wall, and my mechdar. but I have enough orks to bring in a decent horde. and luckily my eldar are small, so now i can change gears without anything lost.

oops, I forgot, this is the interwebs... I mean my hobby is ruined!!! Now I can forget all the problems that 5th had and proclaim it the best edition.
FACT! The thing is, our kan wall is nerfed, but so is the land raider assult BS where you can get terminators nearly 4 inches away as long as an ass hair of the base was with in 2 inches of the door.

I've been reading alot today and the more I read the more I like. For example. If you need 6s to hit when shooting at zooming flyers, and you need 6s to hit on snap fire it sounds to me like my lootas just got a boost. I can move them, and then potentially fire 24 (in my case, I take 8 in a unit) shots at a jet? Fantastic. I used to stun the hell out of my buddies stormraven and it would be forced to sit where it came onto the board, but now if I get enoth hits in I can kill it? And if it zooms everything in side takes a str 10 hit? Ya flyers are sooooooo over powered.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 11:28 PM
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I think orks have pretty much stayed where they are. the Kan wall isn't too bad, because if you put one kan in front of the others, they have to kill that one before they can even damage the others. admittedly, they won't last long. I'll reserve real judgement until I get plenty of games in.

Lootas can fairly reliably take out flyers. I think the main gripe with flyers is that some armies can't deal with them. guard has hydras, and orks have tons of shots, but other armies don't have a reliable way to do it.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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I think orks have pretty much stayed where they are. the Kan wall isn't too bad, because if you put one kan in front of the others, they have to kill that one before they can even damage the others. admittedly, they won't last long. I'll reserve real judgement until I get plenty of games in.

Lootas can fairly reliably take out flyers. I think the main gripe with flyers is that some armies can't deal with them. guard has hydras, and orks have tons of shots, but other armies don't have a reliable way to do it.
I would say that this is very much a matter of opinion that other armies dont have a reliable way to kill flyers.

Bugs and demons have flying MCs. Marines have flyers, as well as the Necrons IG, Dark Eldar and Orks. Right there covers everyone if you take allies.

That being said I hope they introduce flyers or AA choices for the rest of the armies, people should not be shoe horned into taking allies if they dont want too. I am all for tatical choices, but one should not be made to feel like they have to take unit x to win. I think its an awesome system and flyers add a huge amount of tatical thinking to this game. Honestly its about time flyers made it into the game.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 12:04 AM
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I fear that the overwatch rule is just going to mow down assaulty armies, am i right?
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 12:41 AM
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If you blindly feed a unit at a time into a gunline, yes it will eat you. Otherwise it won't be that bad. It is at BS1 and only once a turn. Feed the unit your wanting to assault something squishy and cheap then hammer it with your real CC unit.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 12:46 AM
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I fear that the overwatch rule is just going to mow down assaulty armies, am i right?
Depends how you assault. Take for example my wyches. If I assault and someone has 2 flamers in a unit, then yes my wyches are going to die. Now if I add duke or an archon who has a 2++. Then my wyches are going to be fine.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Depends how you assault. Take for example my wyches. If I assault and someone has 2 flamers in a unit, then yes my wyches are going to die. Now if I add duke or an archon who has a 2++. Then my wyches are going to be fine.
I was just going to say something like this. In my case, I will put a mega armor warboss in with my huge mob of boys, warboss out front. If they over watch me, the gun line has to get thru a T5 AV 2+ 4 wound monster prior to getting the squisher boys. This really makes you think about how you position.

The main gripe I can find that I think has real value is that this will slow games way down, and it will be worse for horde armies like IG and Orks. I cant see my horde builds getting past turn 3 in tourny play. there is just no way unless you have three day, three game tourniments.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 01:16 AM
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I fear that the overwatch rule is just going to mow down assaulty armies, am i right?
Depends. You are certainly going to pick the right time to charge in, and the whole move, shoot, assault routine won't always be the right choice. Giving your assault units some sort of fire support to soften up their target would seem to be the first and best option.

I haven't figured out all the strategic aspects of handling overwatch, but I do know that my assault units will be used much as you would in any army of today - long ranged attacks will thin the numbers, shake up the opposing army. Assault will move in and finish off the weakened foe.

Was it really a realistic situation to have CC squads trundle across the battlefield and roll in to a full squad which is armed to the teeth and waiting for the assault? Not really.

One such example of this is Dark Eldar. Wyches are still awesome fighters. Still very dangerous. Probably not a good idea to throw them in their raider at the opponent and expect them to live. How can you do things differently? How can you get your wyches in to CC without suffering from one of their greatest weaknesses? Can you partner them with Eldar to provide more survivable options? Using the raiders to drop your wyches behind cover and then swing around and lay down anti-personnel fire on the wyches' target? Giving your wyches better short range weaponry so they can trade fire from cover on their targets? Who knows... but you can be sure that you won't win just by rolling up a transport, charging in to the fray and hoping that enough of your guys survive the initial assault. Especially if you are charging in to space wolves or some other counter attacker... trading blows fairly is usually a losing proposition for the aggressor unless they hold some significant edge - your job is to give your assaulters that significant edge.

Overwatch is not nearly as scary when you only have 50% of your squad left.

Last edited by aranelthemithra; 07-03-12 at 01:23 AM.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 02:14 AM Thread Starter
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Depends. You are certainly going to pick the right time to charge in, and the whole move, shoot, assault routine won't always be the right choice. Giving your assault units some sort of fire support to soften up their target would seem to be the first and best option.

I haven't figured out all the strategic aspects of handling overwatch, but I do know that my assault units will be used much as you would in any army of today - long ranged attacks will thin the numbers, shake up the opposing army. Assault will move in and finish off the weakened foe.

Was it really a realistic situation to have CC squads trundle across the battlefield and roll in to a full squad which is armed to the teeth and waiting for the assault? Not really.

One such example of this is Dark Eldar. Wyches are still awesome fighters. Still very dangerous. Probably not a good idea to throw them in their raider at the opponent and expect them to live. How can you do things differently? How can you get your wyches in to CC without suffering from one of their greatest weaknesses? Can you partner them with Eldar to provide more survivable options? Using the raiders to drop your wyches behind cover and then swing around and lay down anti-personnel fire on the wyches' target? Giving your wyches better short range weaponry so they can trade fire from cover on their targets? Who knows... but you can be sure that you won't win just by rolling up a transport, charging in to the fray and hoping that enough of your guys survive the initial assault. Especially if you are charging in to space wolves or some other counter attacker... trading blows fairly is usually a losing proposition for the aggressor unless they hold some significant edge - your job is to give your assaulters that significant edge.

Overwatch is not nearly as scary when you only have 50% of your squad left.
You do have to admit the balance of power has shifted to the shootie armies. FNP and Furrious Charge got nerfed, Shooting can now take place in the opponents turn. CCWs now have AP values, so power swords are not going to kill off termis, You can move and shoot with heavy weapons.

I am afraid more of ture born and kablite warriors from the DE now then the wyches. If my orks assult the warriors in the raider they will push my shit it. That splintercannon alone is deadly. On the other hand, I think it will be a wash against my IG. You can stand off and shoot me all you want, but you should not be able to kill enough.

All in all I think that what was said above is quite sage, the armies haven't changed, the rules and tactics have.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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