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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 05:16 PM
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The Allies matrix makes very little sense.

Eldar and Dark Eldar being brothers in arms is actually fine. They may have powerful philosophical differences between their cultures, but they both know damned well what will happen if they let those differences get in the way of survival, so I see no reason why they cannot work well with one another.

Certain other allies though...

As mentioned, Space Marines now like and trust Tau (and vice versa), Imperial Guard will totally fight alongside Chaos Daemons...

My personal favourite, Sisters/Black Templar are an Unholy Alliance, despite, y'know, agreeing about almost everything. Abhor the Witch, Burn the Mutant, Kill the Heretic and aparantly, Hate Each Other!

The best explanation I've heard is that Sisters are Space Catholics and Black Templars are Space Protestants... But the best bit is that Black Templars are buddy-buddy with the wolf-shagging, heretic, mutant Space Wolfs and even prefer the Grey 'everyone's a psyker' Knights...

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 05:34 PM
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-02-12, 05:53 PM
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And for the space marines and tau, what happened to "Let not the alien live?".
If you go by the supposed fluff progression then the Space Marines are the protectors of the Tau, owing to the fact they are rumored to be the key to killing Chaos.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 12:31 AM
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bitsandkits is correct. Battle brothers is completely fair for Eldar and Dark Eldar have one shared philosophy - Eldar over all.

Soon as you keep that in mind, it makes perfect sense.

They are likely very similar to brothers in fact.

"we can fight with each other, but you touch them and we'll kill ya"
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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bitsandkits is correct. Battle brothers is completely fair for Eldar and Dark Eldar have one shared philosophy - Eldar over all.

Soon as you keep that in mind, it makes perfect sense.

They are likely very similar to brothers in fact.

"we can fight with each other, but you touch them and we'll kill ya"
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The Allies matrix makes very little sense.

Eldar and Dark Eldar being brothers in arms is actually fine. They may have powerful philosophical differences between their cultures, but they both know damned well what will happen if they let those differences get in the way of survival, so I see no reason why they cannot work well with one another.
Again, with the fluff, I must be missing out on something as I don't ever recall them working together as closely as the brb describes for battle brothers. "Two or more armies striving for a common goal. Battle Brothers have utter trust in their comrades, treating them as an extension of their own forces. Such alliances are always voluntary, born out of an unyielding desire for victory."

My memory seems to be failing me on the part where they have utter trust in one another. Allies of convenience would seem a better fit.

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Imperial Guard will totally fight alongside Chaos Daemons...
I spotted this gem last night along with IG allying with CSM. The only way I can think it's justified is that chaos uses the IG rather than the IG willingly helping out chaos. For CSM, corrupting IG into cultists makes for great cannon fodder and for CD, easily corruptible minds make for great gateways into the material realm.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-03-12, 01:47 PM
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I still say they could have easily given Nids an alliance with the Necrons. Necrons have no real bio matter to speak of, and so the Nids really wouldn’t want to consume them (yes, I’m sure they would try to kill them anyway, but bare with me for a minute). That being said, on a battle field where the opposing force does contain bio mass of some sort (basicly every other army in 40k), you would imagine that the Nids would be more interested in them first. Additionally, since the Necorns are so crafty, I could very easily imagine them luring a hive ship or two to a planet to help destroy or soften up a particularly difficult enemy. But as has already been stated, it seems as though the Allies section of the new rules was written with ‘more business’ in mind rather than fluff.
Note: Gene Stealer cult makes a hell of a lot of sense to me too.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-04-12, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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I don't think the necron/tyranid combo would be so much of an alliance as it would be that the necrons wouldn't so much as interfere while the tyranids consumed their enemy. Usually the uniting factor for the desperate alliances for the other races is to drive of the great devourer. I'm pretty sure GW wanted a force that all others could unite against. Every other race besides tyranids wants to dominate the galaxy. Tyranids want to strip it of its resources and leave it lifeless.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-07-12, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
My personal favourite, Sisters/Black Templar are an Unholy Alliance, despite, y'know, agreeing about almost everything. Abhor the Witch, Burn the Mutant, Kill the Heretic and aparantly, Hate Each Other!

The best explanation I've heard is that Sisters are Space Catholics and Black Templars are Space Protestants... But the best bit is that Black Templars are buddy-buddy with the wolf-shagging, heretic, mutant Space Wolfs and even prefer the Grey 'everyone's a psyker' Knights...
I completely agree with this. It's one of the few things that jumped out at me win I glanced at the chart.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-07-12, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
My personal favourite, Sisters/Black Templar are an Unholy Alliance, despite, y'know, agreeing about almost everything. Abhor the Witch, Burn the Mutant, Kill the Heretic and aparantly, Hate Each Other!

The best explanation I've heard is that Sisters are Space Catholics and Black Templars are Space Protestants... But the best bit is that Black Templars are buddy-buddy with the wolf-shagging, heretic, mutant Space Wolfs and even prefer the Grey 'everyone's a psyker' Knights...
Sisters exist because of a loop hole in the Imperial edicts. BT do NOT appreciate those who bypass the Emp's wishes so they'd not want a bar of the SoB.

They are COMMANDED by direct instruction from the Emperor (via the Inquisition) to assist the Grey Knights.

Essentially the only place the allies chart has to make sense is inside your head, like BaK says. If an alliance doesn't seem to make sense for you then trying thinking about it from a different angle, remember this is Sfi-Fi with the emphasis on the Fiction.

Rather than "ah that's rooted" try "how can I make it work for me?". The flights of fancy that the chart encourages are brilliant to my mind.

There is not one alliance that I cannot think of a reasonably plausible explanation for.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-07-12, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Azezel View Post
The Allies matrix makes very little sense.

Eldar and Dark Eldar being brothers in arms is actually fine. They may have powerful philosophical differences between their cultures, but they both know damned well what will happen if they let those differences get in the way of survival, so I see no reason why they cannot work well with one another.
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As mentioned, Space Marines now like and trust Tau (and vice versa),
Don't like this one. Like what it implies about a possible fluff shift even less. Space Marines have been the galaxy's intolerant, xenophobic jerks for twenty five years. Why is this changing?

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Imperial Guard will totally fight alongside Chaos Daemons...
Remember, Guard represent a ton of different things. All the way from some middle tier PDF to crazed heretic traitor Guard.

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My personal favourite, Sisters/Black Templar are an Unholy Alliance, despite, y'know, agreeing about almost everything. Abhor the Witch, Burn the Mutant, Kill the Heretic and aparantly, Hate Each Other!
This is one of those matches that seems like it would be automatic. However the Templars and Sisters believe very different things. Sisters believe in the divinity of the God Emperor. The Black Templars, on the other hand, specifically deny that lie, and are practicing the worship of the Emperor himself, and are stuck 10,000 years in the past carrying on with the Great Crusade/Scouring.

Have to be sure to not get confused by the fact that they are both religious themed and hate psykers. Their beliefs are similar, but it's actually a very common real world occurrence for two very closely related offshoots to be totally irreconcilable. The best comparison is actually Space Shiites vs Space Sunnis. Cirrusly. Go look up the difference between Sunni and Shiite Muslim beliefs. It's crazy what these guys have been carrying on a bloody civil war in Iraq over for decades. In the end, that's the kind of minor difference in interpretation that might make the Templars and Sisters not likely to get along too well. I mean, they're not likely to be violently antagonistic, but they definitely shouldn't be good friends.

The other part is that the Sisters are extreme rules lawyers. It's what makes them such good enforcers for the Ecclessiarchy and occasional tools for the Inquisition when hunting supposed heretics. The Black Templars, on the other hand, are running a heretically illegal amount of ships, Marines, and weaponry. So, in addition to being Space Marines (who inherently don't consider themselves subject to the authority of other Imperial agencies), they also wouldn't want Sisters around, tracking their movements, and snooping into the secrets of the Crusade Fleets, lol.

I like to put it this way. It's the difference between the following conversations:

"You hate witches? We hate witches. There's a witch over there. Let's go burn her."

and

"You hate witches? We totally hate witches. We should hang out all the time and burn witches. But you have to promise not to tell anybody about our illegal army, illegal fleet, or our questionable recruiting and training practices. Oh, and realize that we're probably never going to treat you as equals, and we think your whole religion is total bullcrap. Oh, and it's cool if you report back to your buddies at the Ecclessiarchy, the Inquistion, and the High Lords about where we are at, and where we are going."


Honestly, the Sisters of Battle probably have too many Allies of Convenience, lol. They should be Battle Brothers with the Guard, AoC with Grey Knights, and Desperate Allies or "No Allies" with pretty much everybody else. They aren't exactly known for playing well with others.

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