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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-11, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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Default SM tactical squad vs. Ork shoota boyz

Okay, everyone knows that Bolters are, basically, useless in normal games. They can be somewhat effective at range, but that's only when the squad hasn't moved and isn't inside a transport. How often does that happen? The alternative is to shoot on the move, but then your shots are limited to 12" and you can't assault. So, the squad charges forward, shoots, and prays that they eliminated the threat. Else, they get shot and charged next turn. But, how often does 7 bolters, a bolt pistol, and a meltagun eliminate the threat?

15 bolt shots = 10 hits (avg), 5 wounds (avg) + 1 wound from the meltagun, so 6 wounds that are possibly saved if the enemy has 4+ or better saves. Against any sort of horde army, that's just not good enough. Against any combat specialist squad of 10+, that's not good enough.

Lets say that you do those 6 wounds and kill 6 orks. That leaves 18 orks plus a nob. They move up 6", return fire for 46 shoota shots and 6 big shoota shots, 15 + 2 hits, 7 + 2 wounds, 3 dead marines. Then, the 18 boyz and nob charge into assault and it's all over.

So much for the Emperor's finest, eh?

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-11, 10:55 AM
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*ahem* well I use the bolt pistols they all have in their wargear, instead of the bolters (except the meltagun obvs), and then assault them, preventing their furious charge.

Simples (and comes to around 8/9 casualties on their side, provided you don't shoot liek a god so they run away).

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-11, 11:53 AM
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*ahem* well I use the bolt pistols they all have in their wargear, instead of the bolters (except the meltagun obvs), and then assault them, preventing their furious charge.

Simples (and comes to around 8/9 casualties on their side, provided you don't shoot liek a god so they run away).
Pretty much this. I know you're essentially halving your shooting but still, denying them those Assault bonuses for charging severely blunts the damage they could've done.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-29-11, 02:17 PM
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It's all about tactics. Take the same situation against a squad of 10 DE Wyches. 15 shots = 10 hits. Need 3+ to wound, so averages 6-7 wounds, +1 from melta. They get no saves vs shooting, leaving 2-3 wyches. A tac squad can handle 2-3 wyches.

How about Nids? Against gaunts, you get the same situation of 7-8 dead from shooting.
If it was Genestealers, I would go bolter every time, there are few things I would send in melee against them.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-11, 06:41 AM
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Bolters definetly have their place. I once pinned my friend's tac squad against their own Rhino and had units close in from 3 sides and whipe them clean before moving forward. Worked wonders.

I've never seen impossible as a reason not to try.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-30-11, 03:52 PM
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They work great for Grey Hunters with Counter-attack :-p

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-11, 12:44 AM
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As a great man once said, Tactical squads are easy to kill, a mouse with bad breath could probably do it.

Seriously though this comparison seems utterly flawed. Shoota boyz are designed to work well in an army that consists of pretty much just boyz and a Warboss. Tactical squads on the other hand are intended to hold objectives while the glory boyz like Terminators, bikers and Vanguard Veterans convert the enemy into a finely ground paste that makes excellent bait for mouse traps.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-11, 01:56 AM
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while on the surface, the tac squad is seriously at a disadvantage to the ork shoota boy. I understand, that 60ish strength 4 shots sounds brutal. but you're forgetting the ultimate counterweapon to a horde of orks. You need to deploy your mighty mobile bunker of the emperor, the rhino. Watch as the pathetic orks bounce off the sides. I know first hand, as an ork player, the worst situation is having to assault a rhino. leaving my orks high and dry for rapid firing or counter assault.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-11, 04:34 AM
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Also, why does that tac squad not have a flamer if they're fighting Orks?

I've never seen impossible as a reason not to try.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-31-11, 10:04 AM
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And lastly if I have 1 tax squad holding an objective I normally have a character with them and/or another squad or tank

But this of course ruins the comparison as I'm now looking at about 3-400 points to protect against 115ish......

Last edited by Hellados; 10-31-11 at 10:13 AM.
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