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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-11-09, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Saim Hann list, 1750pts

Howdy all

im looking at expanding my current Saim Hann force to 1750. Up to this point i've pretty much just collected the basics, now i want to add to them

my idea for my 1750 list is:

Farseer
-Singing Spear
-Jetbike, Spirit Stones
-Fortune, Mind war

5 Warlocks
-Jetbikes
-1 Singing spear
-3x Destructor, 1 Embolden, 1 Enhance

8 Howling Banshees
-Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatic
Wave Serpent
-Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones

6 Fire Dragons

8 Dire Avengers
-Exarch, Twin Catapults, Defend
Wave Serpent
-EML, Spirit Stones

6 Jetbikes
-2 Cannons

6 Jetbikes
-2 Cannons

Fire Prism
-Holofields, Spirit Stones

Falcon
-EML
-Holofields, Spirit Stones

Altogether this comes to 1717 points, so have some spare

General Tactics
Ram the seer council right up the middle of the board, force the enemy to deal with them. Properly fortuned, this unit can take a whole armies' firepower without breaking a sweat . using mindwar to pick off anything ST6 or more (cant have my farseer instant killed) i use them to flame and attack any hard unit in the enemy army. all this time i can use the falcon, shuriken cannons and wave serpents to pick off enemy transports either to stop objective rushes or for easy KP. the dragons can deal with anything AV13+ that my other units cant deal with .
banshees are used purely as a scalpel to stop my seer council getting bogged down. i will happily sacrifice this unit in the next turn of shooting if it leaves my council free to sweep through an opponents army. i also think the exarch power Acrobatic, giving the unit counter-attack rule, is essential in 5th edition because of the inability to sweep into another combat
dire avengers get the boring task of sitting at the back of the board defending any objectives in my board half, using the wave serpent to block LOS and defend to stop enemy units from assaulting me away
Jetbikes hang about taking pot-shots at enemy light vehicles/transports and generally trying not to die. turn 5 they boost at enemy-held or free objectives for the late win. if the game goes on past 5, i use any remaining tanks, aspect warriors or seer council members to shield the jetbikes and avengers and hold the objectives firm.

any comments/criticisms/advice on what to spend the remaining points on are very welcome!
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-11-09, 08:26 PM
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Why the walking fire dragons? They really get a lot of benefit from a transport since they have a short range. If your plan is to have your avengers holding objectives, why not put a fire dragon exarch with a dragon's breath flamer and crack shot into the wave serpent instead for mobile roasting and tank nuking? You could even swap the DAs out for guardians at that point for a heavy weapon that you can shoot while defending your objective. Most of the time the objective will be in cover too, so the worse armor save isn't as big of a deal. Then again, the avengers generally have superior anti-infantry firepower, so there are good and bad both ways.

Other than that, looks good. You're only fielding 40 troops and 4 vehicles, so expect to be heavily outnumbered in most situations, but you'll have fun with it I think.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-11-09, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, sorry, Fire Dragons are in the falcon, should of mentioned that lol

i fully expect to be outnumbered, but everything in my army can move 24" a turn or move and shoot to full effect, so i don't think it will be too much of a problem
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-13-09, 12:39 PM
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Can i ask why is it that you have some points unspent? I am not exactly experienced in eldar so was just wondering why.

is it a tactical advantage based on squad size? (othervise I would probably at least finished the dire avenger squad and it is a pretty strange combo you are using defend and shuriken cataput, i have noticed most people either go cataputs and bladestorm, or pw, shimmer shield and defend. or if u didnt want to incrase squad size, you may as well use the unspent points on bladestorm as well)

or give fire dragon an exarch and Crack shot to deny cover save.



(its been argued to hell if someone should take exarch on dragons, but.... if u are playing vs anything with skimmers moving fast out.... denying that annoying cover save could mean difference of a smoked tank, and do nothing at all).


I would also change one weapon on the waveserpent, if you had the points (the banshee one to also missile launcher since you have the points, allowing for more ranged anti-tank, and possibility to pin). or better still, take out that singing spear from the warlock/ farseer that will save enough to upgrade one waveserpent to TL brightlance for those 13+ armours.

thats because another smart player once told me about redundancy of units, wiping out your firedragons would mean armour 14 can literally go unchecked. And we all know that multiple landraider list are pretty common. and i serious doubt you would want to move your seer counsil near any landraider crusader etc. (unless u wanted to destroy it in melee... but what is lurking inside those tin cans?)

Last edited by doomliger; 05-13-09 at 12:48 PM.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-13-09, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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hey doomliger, cheers for the comprehensive reply, its exactly what i was looking for!

ill take each point separately

Quote:
Can i ask why is it that you have some points unspent?
I chose this force based purely on what i thought would work, it came to this points total lol i can always add stuff

Quote:
is it a tactical advantage based on squad size?
i read that apparently the best squad size for an aspect warrior squad is 8. any time iv played, iv found this to be true lol

Quote:
it is a pretty strange combo you are using defend and shuriken cataput, i have noticed most people either go cataputs and bladestorm, or pw, shimmer shield and defend
yeh my combo is odd, but i have found it to be the best for my use of the avengers. i am not a huge fan of bladestorm because it means in the second turn you have no ranged offense at all as they "reload"
a squad in cover with defend can hold all but the most specialist assault squads

Quote:
its been argued to hell if someone should take exarch on dragons, but.... if u are playing vs anything with skimmers moving fast out.... denying that annoying cover save could mean difference of a smoked tank, and do nothing at all
falcon gives me the manoeuvrability to ensure that i dont have to face a vehicle in cover, but thanks for the suggestion...might consider this

Quote:
I would also change one weapon on the waveserpent, if you had the points (the banshee one to also missile launcher since you have the points, allowing for more ranged anti-tank, and possibility to pin). or better still, take out that singing spear from the warlock/ farseer that will save enough to upgrade one waveserpent to TL brightlance for those 13+ armours.
i just love my scatterlaser serpent too much that bad boy can pop rhinos far more reliably than EMLs, but i might consider a bright lance upgrade

Quote:
And we all know that multiple landraider list are pretty common. and i serious doubt you would want to move your seer counsil near any landraider crusader etc. (unless u wanted to destroy it in melee... but what is lurking inside those tin cans?)
actually, my seer council will be aimed towards any land raider they can take any squad that pops out!

cheers 4 the input
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-13-09, 10:07 PM
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it seems our way of running eldar is very different! and more than likely i m the beginner here!

for example, i never like the idea of jetbike seers and warlocks, they seem to attract too much fire power and rely on the invul save and fortune.

i also found that even if they did pop raiders, they may not be close enough to charge... and then.... gets charged by close combat terminators or worse.... group of berserkers. so timing and range is extremely important. So i found it risky! you need to be a good player to pull it off!

requarding the numbers to run in a unit, i found that max squad of aspect seems to run better in serpents, but 8 is better on foot (easier to hide, take cover etc). and that was especially with direavengers (as being scoring really need those extra bodies)!

i am a big fan of the 2 cc specialist aspects = banshees and scorpions so you wouldnt see me leave home without them (shame i dont have enough to get the new scorpion model) and i m saving to get yriel (this guy has unlimited potential!) but games workshop is charging 10 quid for him! If you got any ideas, maybe you can tell me if i should get scorps 1st or yriel 1st?
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-13-09, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomliger View Post
it seems our way of running eldar is very different! and more than likely i m the beginner here!

for example, i never like the idea of jetbike seers and warlocks, they seem to attract too much fire power and rely on the invul save and fortune.

i also found that even if they did pop raiders, they may not be close enough to charge... and then.... gets charged by close combat terminators or worse.... group of berserkers. so timing and range is extremely important. So i found it risky! you need to be a good player to pull it off!

requarding the numbers to run in a unit, i found that max squad of aspect seems to run better in serpents, but 8 is better on foot (easier to hide, take cover etc). and that was especially with direavengers (as being scoring really need those extra bodies)!

i am a big fan of the 2 cc specialist aspects = banshees and scorpions so you wouldnt see me leave home without them (shame i dont have enough to get the new scorpion model) and i m saving to get yriel (this guy has unlimited potential!) but games workshop is charging 10 quid for him! If you got any ideas, maybe you can tell me if i should get scorps 1st or yriel 1st?
It seems we are having an extended conversation over two different threads here

i am in no way an eldar expert, but i would say i have differing ideas to 90% of other eldar players. most o my tactics involve using speed and firepower to overwell the enemy at one point in their line, then shift everything to a different point when they react. hence i dont tend to use many CC squads, the banshees are a sacrifice unit.

likewise what you are saying about the seer council- they are not meant to survive, they are meant to take a whole army worth of firepower. and boy they can take it! that firepower means that my humble jetbike squads are at full strength to attack objectives turn 5, and often by this point there is little that can resist them.

as for scorpions or yriel, i would def advise scorpions! give them a serpent and outflank them, and watch as you opponent is hit by crazy-ass killers on both sides IMO Yriel is too easy to kill- if a single ST6 attack gets through his forcefield, he is instant toast. scorpions are incredible against any army, i just use banshees in mine cos i face more MEQ's than hordes in my area

best o luck with your army doomliger! do you have any army lists to post up?
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-13-09, 11:44 PM
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hi sir_m1ke, here it is!

https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...711#post385711

Thanks for the info btw! need more serpents! and must sell guardians and warwalkers!
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-14-09, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by doomliger View Post
Thanks for the info btw! need more serpents! and must sell guardians and warwalkers!
Guardians have there place, i just hate them although i dont like eldar foot armies anyway so im biased

warwalkers can be very effective, especially if outflanking; get a bunch o scatter lasers on them and fire away! i just dont use them cos they are easy to take down, and i use my vehicles as fire magnets away from my valuable units
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-14-09, 01:44 AM
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Have to say I rate Yriel very highly, used like you suggested for Banshees - really though, everything that isn't scoring in the Eldar list is suicide, just have to make sure it dies well. I once killed a 5-man Ogyrn squad with Yriel, though he couldn't reach the Veteran squad behind due to not Sweeping in, and he couldn't get either out of sight or short range of their plasmas...

Jetseers are very popular, and powerful. Have you any pics of the conversions you did?
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