Friendly 1500 Points VS. Blood Angels. - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-09-14, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Default Friendly 1500 Points VS. Blood Angels.

So my next battle is a 1500 point game against Blood Angels on a 4x4 table with lots of terrain. This will be against the same guy that has beaten be 13/15 games with different armies (BA, nids, Demons, csm). He always has very solid list, is a excellent player and has insane luck... basically I got to have a solid list with a good game plan to stand a chance.
I'm not sure what he is going to take because I have only played his BA once, but I think I will see a Dread, Deep Striking Jump Unit with a Close combat HQ and devastators. Now considering that I have lost like 9 games in a row now and haven't won in 8 months or so... I am out for blood this match lol.
Anyway, here are all the models that I have (no way for me to get any new units before next game):
• 2 x Farseer or Spritseer
• 6 x Warlocks
• Illic Nightspear
• 10 x Guardians with platform
• 20 x Dire Avangers
• 5 x Rangers (6 if I sub in Illic as a count as)
• 5 x Wraithguad (can be loaded out to wraithblades)
• 6 x Fire Dragons
• 6 x Banshees
• 12 x Scorpions
• 10 x Warp Spiders (unpainted and I haven't used these in a game yet)
• Fire Prism (Can convert to a WS)
• Falcon (Can sub as a WS)
• 2 x Wave Serpents (Can sub as Falcon)
1 x Vyper
• 3 x War Walkers
• 5 x Dark Reapers
• Defense line with emplacement gun and relay
When I get a chance I'm going to sit down and come up with a list, but I would like any ideas from you guys as well, only thing I would like to take for sure are the wraithguard as these are new and I want to use them.

Last edited by troybuckle; 02-09-14 at 08:38 PM.
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-09-14, 04:26 PM
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I was going to recommend wraithguard either way so thats lucky. Throw them in a waveserpent and give them the flamers. These guys are basically a delete unit. Pick a unit and watch this dissapper from the board. After that it depends what he brings. If he is all infantry and combaty you could go 3 wave serpents and out pace him. If he goes vehicles keep the serpents and throw either fire dragons in them or wraithguard and bring fire prisms and dark reapers.

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-09-14, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Irish Commissar View Post
I was going to recommend wraithguard either way so thats lucky. Throw them in a waveserpent and give them the flamers. These guys are basically a delete unit. Pick a unit and watch this dissapper from the board.
Ok, so this is what I'll have:

Wraithguard (D-scythes) x 5 = 210
Wave Serpent (holo, stones, laser, cannon) 155
365 points used now so that leaves me with 1135 points left.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 09:52 AM
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Go defensive. Blood Angels will match you for speed for the most part and they hit harder than you do.
I've had the most success against BA with wraithwall, so I'm agreeing with the irish commisar. You also need to protect against outflanking Baal predators - they'll ruin your day if he rolls well (as to which side they come on from)

I've got BA on wednesday with my eldar, so I'm trying Dark reapers with a farseer spamming divination - If I can get 'ignores cover' then thats a lot of missiles that'll be hitting from turn 1. I'm also going to stick a spiritseer with them to try to make them more survivable.

Overall, take a firepower list - don't try to out manouvre him. Take a couple of very tough defensive units to screen your guns and see how it goes.

I'd take units from the following list (copied and pasted from above)

I've not listed the scorpions as they won't win a fight against BA - but they might hold him up for a while so it's up to you on them.

2 x Farseer or Spritseer
10 x Guardians with platform
20 x Dire Avengers
5 x Wraithguad (can be loaded out to wraithblades)
6 x Fire Dragons
10 x Warp Spiders
Fire Prism
2 x Wave Serpents
3 x War Walkers
5 x Dark Reapers
Defense line with emplacement gun and relay

Last edited by Gret79; 02-10-14 at 09:56 AM.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 02:57 PM
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Pretty much echoing what's been said.

Run the Wraithguard with D-Flamers in a Serpent, give the Serpent a Starcannon (so it can blast a couple of marines here and there when empty). You can do two things iwth this unit - go for the throat or keep it back. The former would involve targeting a unit (say, a large Death Company squad) and going in for the kill... the latter would mean a little more patience, react to the enemy and attack accordingly.

I would also try and keep at least one other unit mounted. I'm thinking a cheap Farseer + 5 DA's in a Falcon (with Starcannon) would make a nice unit to capture OBJs at the last moment, and give you some killing power.
2 DA units in Wave Serpents with Starcannons will add more to the troops department, and, will be a pain to destroy. Consider giving one of the Bright Lances, granted, heavy armour is unlikely - but a predator or something similar is a chance encounter. that, and lances fry Rhinos... and you will be seeing at least one of them, I would imagine.

The Fire Prism is a MUST.

Dark Reapers are the bane of space marines, as we all know. However, BA tend to be considerably quicker than normal SM armies.. so you'd lose out on shooting.. and also present him with a very small, expensive unit that is hopeless in CC.

---

So yes, in short. Focus your army around 3 Wave Serpents (2 x DA squad, 1 x Wraithguard), a Fire Prism and a Falcon. Throw in a Cheap Farseer as a leader. There you have a fast, reactive army that can re-deploy against him, and put out good fire power.

Tactics wise, I'd recommend refusing a flank and focusing on one half of his army. Reducing units to 25% should be a priority, as it severely reduces their effectiveness and OBJ taking abilities.
Keeping everything mounted in the earlier turns denies him easy CC with any unit that may deepstrike. Against Eldar, an assumption can almost be made that a big unit of Assault Marines will be fairly difficult to shift in CC and off an Objective.
Think very carefully about your Fire Prism's shots. Blasting a Rhino with it is all well and good, but killing 4/10 marines in a squad across the board is better business.
A sniper Falcon is still piss irritating and demoralising to fight... even though you may not be getting great kills... having a tank at the back of the board that he can do nothing about, AND knowing it has a unit inside that can cap an OBJ, is a real weight on an opponents mind in small games.
Don't get into CC!
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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I haven’t checked this list against my codex yet, but I think that it is right. So I think that this maybe a good list. I got a bit of info from him and he will be taking: Mephiston, Scouts, Termies, Vehicles and Flamers and I think FNP might come into play for him somehow. This game will be on Wednesday Feb. 12, 2014… so let me know your ideas.



HQ (100)
  • Farseer 100
Troops (290)

  • Guardians x10 (Cannon) 105
    Wave Serpent (Starcannon) 120
  • Rangers x 5 = 65

Elites (510)
  • Fire Dragons x 5 110
    Wave Serpent (Starcannon) 120
  • Wraithguard x5 160
    Wave Serpent (Starcannon) 120
Fast Attack (170)
  • Warp Spiders x 5 85
  • Warp Spiders x 5 85

Heavy Support (425)
  • Dark Reapers x5 150

  • War walkers x2 (scatter, bl) 140

  • Fire Prism (stones) 135
Total Points = 1500

The idea here is to go with AP2or3 to make sure that I get through that 3+ armour save especially if he has FNP. I will use the Farseer to guide (wish he could cast this twice) and hopefully get Doom or Fortune. I think with the Walkers, Spiders, Prism I should have enough Fire Power to deal with Vehicles. I will plant the rangers, reapers, prism on my D-Zone and play aggressively with everything else.


@Orochi you bring up some things that have me a bit worried with this list above, I think that if I dumb out my dragons and guard they will get mobbed in CC, along with the DR and Rangers if I sit them on the back of the board. The problem is on a 4x4 board against and army that moves 12” + 2D6 Assault range = nowhere to hide…

Last edited by troybuckle; 02-10-14 at 04:59 PM.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 05:02 PM
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My guess (as a BA player) of what he's taking, assuming he's competitive. And with your comments added in.

BA are, in general, fast and resilient. Right now, however, they are grossly overpriced for what they get. Because of this, taking lots of shots should deal with them decently. A few things to watch out for.

BA missile-spam is a fun tactic, you can either have 6 5 man units with two missiles each or three with four for 630 and 390 respectively. Either way that's 12 s8 ap3 shots a turn or 12 large blasts... you're going to want to avoid guardians, and anything with less than av12 should stay at home. av13 is much preferred.

If they don't go missile spam, then an av13 wall is common. You need s8+ to deal with this, preferably a bright lance or two. BA can theoretically bring 6 av13 fast tanks and 3 av13 dreads in pods to each game, and it's not bad to do so. Normally you won't see more than two of each tank though, and probably only one dread.

Fragiosos are fun because... flamers. That dread will either have 3 flamer templates (2x s6 and 1 s5 ap4) or one and a melta and crazy CC ability.

Assault marines as troops. Don't get assaulted. Just... don't. Even with t6 (wraithgaurd), we wound on 5s with 30 attacks from 10 guys (some at higher s due to power axes etc), and the rest of the time we wound on 2s (s5 from furious charge on priests). If you take out the special weapons, though, they lose most of their effectiveness.

I will add more later, but I have to go to class so...

GLHF mate

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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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He is a very competitive player and did mention vehicles and flamers, my guess now based of your input is multiple tanks (razorbascks?) Flamer/CC Dread, and DS scouts and Jump Assault units.

Hmm…

If I drop the Farseer and Guardians:
  • I can pick up an Autarch and 5 Dire Avangers and put D-Scythes back on the Wraithguard and stones on their WS to ensure that they don’t get stunned or shaken.
The Autarch can help ensure the units of spiders DS, along with the walkers outflanking, to get a look at the rear armour of at least 3 units on turn 2. D-Scythes will help me when I get assaulted. Autarch, ridding with the DA and staying in the tank as long as possible to grab something at then end and just shoot away, I could put SL on this guy instead of Starcannons I think.

I think that he will set up his tanks forward as possible move 6” turn one and disembark 6” leaving 12-20” inches between him and me for a turn two assault FTW. He plays aggressively all the time.

I don’t think that I will have enough fire power on the board in turn one to deal with an AV 12+, with my spiders, walkers, in reserve (I can throw shield for D6+1 S7 shots I guess). I can try to infiltrate my rangers to distract him and maybe keep them away from my Deployment Zone… I just don’t see this game going well for me.

**What if I loaded out my 3 WS to blast forward Flatout behind his tanks and Turn on the spot to give me rear armor to shoot at (I think that there is enough Vehicle equipment to let me do this?).
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-10-14, 06:08 PM
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Yes, in your position, with the units you have available, the list needs an entire overhaul.

Rangers & Dark Reapers will be destroyed on such a small board. Their excessive range for their weapons is no use. That, and they'll be caught and mobbed. That's 215 points you're essentially giving him.

The Warp Spiders are tricky, and it depends purely on how good you are at using them. 2 units of 5 can be very good at distracting, hitting the rear of vehicles... and Str6 shooting does wound marines on a 2+... however, actual 'damage' is beyond them, due to small unit size. A round of shooting from bolt pistols will probably send them running. A larger unit of say, 8, would be more viable. You'll save a couple of models cost, and the concentrated fire will reap better results.

War Walkers are an option against him, but remember to run all of the same weapon. Starcannons would be a good bet, especially if he has Mephiston and Terminators wandering about - Outflank them and slam some Starcannon into them. Armour save 2+... and what?

Fire dragons are still, sadly, a suicide unit. And anything short of a Land Raider/250pt+ beastie really isn't worth their time. Yes, you can vaporise a couple of terminators... but that's all you'll accomplish. Some clever DA firing could accomplish the same result. Also, any transport with FDs in it becomes a magnet for every heavy weapon in your enemies army... namely because if they are rendered without a transport, 12" range is poor. even on a 4x4 board.

Wave Serpents with Chin-cannons and Starcannons (or indeed Scatterlasers/shuri-cannons), will put out a colossal amount of fire power, enough shots to start forcing failed armour saves. That, and are fast enough to prevent themselves being caught. These will undoubtedly win you the game. Support them with a Fire Prism, it gives you enough mobile firepower to wipe out entire units at a time

Now, Mephiston. No doubt, he'll choose the power that allows this absolute bullshit of a character to fly about. T6, W5 and a 2+ save make him a tough cookie to crack. make sure you have a defensive Farseer with equipment to deal with incoming warp powers. However... he is sinking nearly a fifth of his points into him. If you do your best to ignore him for at least 2 turns, and focus as much as you can on his troop choices, potentially by turn 4, you'll just have his more elite units to deal with.
Assuming this is the case, i would imagine his terminators (a 250 point unit, I would guess) will probably be Deep Striking in. If you can do enough damage to his initial forces (his troop choices!) you may be able to force to to HAVE to split up his forces to counter yours (this is where your mobile vehicles will come into play), isolating his units. Using your speed and his isolation, you should be able to draw angles to prevent maximum use of cover.
Mephiston will no doubt be flying about, there is a way to use this against him (especially in such a small game). He cannot join units. So, can be picked out. Concentrating weaponry on him can put him down, no Inv save is a major weakness for a model that cannot hide in a unit. However, focus on units that will down your skimmers, anything with a lascannon or missile launcher, be it a tank/man/whatever. Breaking the spine of his army means that no matter what his 'weapons' are, he'll struggle to use them.

Thus, I recommend:

Farseer
Wraithguard w/ D-Flamers in a Wave Serpent with Brightlance + Chin cannon.
2 x 6 DA in Wave Serpents with Starcannon + Chin cannon
2 x Walkers w/Starcannons (Outflank these guys)
Fire Prism w/Stones and Chin Cannon

I don't have a codex on me, so let me know what sort of poitns are left over (assuming this idea interests you).

WILDCARDS!
He's taking a whopping, great expensive character... so consider doing it back.

Asurman. Proxy him if need be.
Asurman is WS7, has 5 str5, ap2, Dire sword hits (both on the charge and being charged), has EW and a 2+ save... And, has the Exarch power to sit back and hide behind a 3++, whislt dealing one hit back at a time. Keep the Farseer there to keep him under divination/guide, re-rolls galore. He'll kill anything (I have kill Mephiston with him before). Oh, and 3 Eldar warlord traits.

Karandras
6 Str8, Ap2 hits at WS7 and initiative 7. Splat.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-11-14, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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So this is what I have now based on all the input:

HQ
Far seer (spear) 105

Troops
6 x Dire avengers (exarch, diresword/pistol) 108
Wave serpernt (star cannons,cannon) 130

6 x Dire avengers (exarch, diresword/pistol) 108
Wave serpent (star cannons,cannon) 130

Elites
Wraith guard (D-scythes) 210
Wave serpent (star cannon,stones) 130

Fast Attack
5 x Warp Spiders 95
5 x Warp Spiders 95

Heavy support
2 x Warwalkers (laser, bl) 140
4 x Darkreapers 120
Fire prism (stones) 135

Total = 1506 (close enough for a friendly game)

I like the look of this, it's very mobile with only 4 reapers hanging back and that's not a big point sink to lose, he will expect me to have a defence line maned with guardians and reapers..

I think that's the DA with Exarchs with the ap2 dire sword and pistol (for an extra A) at I6 will boost them when they ends up being in close combat and it will happen on a 4x4 table

If you see any little tweeks point them out!

Last edited by troybuckle; 02-11-14 at 01:42 PM.
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