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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I can see two uses for Maugan Ra. In the first one he is your assassination unit, finishing off units that only have a model or two left, in order to get those extra kill points. I believe the second on is more likely, I believe he goes along with a unit of Fire Dragons and helps them survive/kill the survivors after they pop a tank. Also, I may have to look at Tau, after you mentioned the artillery rule, because I love my D-Cannons.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 05:00 PM
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Ok, I can see two uses for Maugan Ra. In the first one he is your assassination unit, finishing off units that only have a model or two left, in order to get those extra kill points. I believe the second on is more likely, I believe he goes along with a unit of Fire Dragons and helps them survive/kill the survivors after they pop a tank. Also, I may have to look at Tau, after you mentioned the artillery rule, because I love my D-Cannons.
Intresting, but we need to go deeper.

I place Maugan in the annex that houses the Krakstorm Missile Launcher. Its range is 12-72 and is a Str 8 Ap3 ordanance barrage.

Ra twin links it with his BS7, making sure it always hits, and uses fast shot to turn it into a multiple barrage weapon. And for pesky units that have good cover saves he uses Crack Shot to deny any saves and to make sure all wounds stick. He also technically has Night Vision and thus would allow the Launcher to bypass night fighting.

As you can prob tell he will tear a new asshole into any squad he shoots at or vehicle parking lot. Often times he can wreck 2+ vehicles with a multi barrage ordanace hit.

He also has a 2+ armor so can survive the impact hits when people start shooting the annex.

When/if the annex is deatroyed he wanders around killing things or if i am somehow deaperate performs counter charge for me.

Edit: kramstorm is a large blast
Can you tell me where both the Fire Dragon squads go and why?

The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable


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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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See, I didn't know anything about the Krakstorm, probably because of my newness. Also, can any unit pilot a weapons platform? If so, that makes D-Cannons a lot more survivable. Honestly, I probably still wouldn't have called Ra going there, even if I knew these things. As for the Dragons, you don't have a transport and would probably not want them footslogging. I'd bet you have a unit for each emplacement. One for the Fortress and one for the Bastion and they pile out if a vehicle needs killing. Unless that is not allowed because Ra is already in the Fortress, in which case, they may use the fortress for cover or footslog.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 05:45 PM
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See, I didn't know anything about the Krakstorm, probably because of my newness. Also, can any unit pilot a weapons platform? If so, that makes D-Cannons a lot more survivable. Honestly, I probably still wouldn't have called Ra going there, even if I knew these things. As for the Dragons, you don't have a transport and would probably not want them footslogging. I'd bet you have a unit for each emplacement. One for the Fortress and one for the Bastion and they pile out if a vehicle needs killing. Unless that is not allowed because Ra is already in the Fortress, in which case, they may use the fortress for cover or footslog.

Ah my bad, you can find the rules for the fortress of redemption and the imperial bastion in the main rulebook as well as rules for using them.

The fortress itself can hold 4 squads so yes the fire dragons go in the bastion and the fortress. The exarch uses the Icarus Lascannon in each section (which is just a las cannon with a 96' range. They exist to kill enemy flyers (along with the broadsides). However they can also kill any other vehicles and along with Tank Hunters for re-rolls and Crackshot to deny cover saves they do a great job.
Also because the Exarch is a character if i roll a 6 to hit i can choose where the wound goes allowing me to snipe models in squads.
They also provide poit defense incase something big deepstrikes next to me, the heavy flamer is for when they are charged, and the dragons in the bastion also use the 4 heavy bolters allowig them to inflict damage up to 36 away.

Can you tell me where the d-cannons go and why, also would they be joined by any character?

The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Ah my bad, you can find the rules for the fortress of redemption and the imperial bastion in the main rulebook as well as rules for using them.
Ah, that would be the problem, my friend has our only rulebook and I just have a working knowledge of it.

Anyway, I would say that the D-Cannons go in the Fortress, assuming they can fit. Because that is where the brunt of your firing power is, so why not go whole-hog. Also, it offers extra protection for them. I would imagine the character goes with them for the same reason the exarchs fire the Icarus Lascannons, if you roll sixes to wound, I'd imagine you could allocate wounds, even if it's a blast, based on what you've already said.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 06:58 PM
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Ah, that would be the problem, my friend has our only rulebook and I just have a working knowledge of it.

Anyway, I would say that the D-Cannons go in the Fortress, assuming they can fit. Because that is where the brunt of your firing power is, so why not go whole-hog. Also, it offers extra protection for them. I would imagine the character goes with them for the same reason the exarchs fire the Icarus Lascannons, if you roll sixes to wound, I'd imagine you could allocate wounds, even if it's a blast, based on what you've already said.
Partially correct in placment but not in practice but close!
Farsser takes prime power from divination tree and guides the squad allowing the shots out of LOS to be super accurate.
1 squad goes in the main bunker with firs points the otherone is deloyed behind the fortress and fire indrectly. Since i dont have fortune leeping them from being shot in the first place is the best defense
Secondly i use them as area denial and point defense, same as the dragons. There is nothing that a d-cannon cannot maim/ kill so most things that need to get close to hurt the fortress are eradicated.

You may notice a theme, so far all my weapons either have really long range and deny cover saves, or dont need LOS and deny cover saves, also because of the Tau most everything ignores nightfighting if it comes up.

The D-cannons are excellent at area denial and you can avoid them because they are protectig the fortress, AV14 is very durable at range (especially if i can give it a cover save) so you need to come to me.

Can you tell me how the jetbikes might be used in conjunction with the above?

The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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The Jetbikes are the easiest, at least as far as telling you how I would use them goes, they run out last minute and take the points that you have kept your opponent off of and contest the points that you haven't. They might also be useful for hit-and-run tactics.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 07:41 PM
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The Jetbikes are the easiest, at least as far as telling you how I would use them goes, they run out last minute and take the points that you have kept your opponent off of and contest the points that you haven't. They might also be useful for hit-and-run tactics.
Yes and at the same time no. The reason i don't gve them a cannon is because i need their twin linked shots to help force grounding tests from flying MC's. They also start the game in reserve so they do not get alpha'ed off the table. I also use them because if you destroy a section of the fortress it becomes imassible terrain. Jetbikes can fly on impassible terrain, meanig i can prevent them from being assualted and in some cases even shot at. They have a very high life expectincy.

Without going into the Tau units, that i use to fill in gaps, what can you do with your lists keeping in mind the above tactics. I see at least two things.

The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable

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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-12-13, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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If you mean altering my list, using only what models I have, to fight your's, I would probably pack it full of long-rang artillery, get behind some cover (out of rang of your units that do not need LOS) and sit there, forcing you to come to me, at which point, I would try to take out as many of your hard-hitting units as possible. That is probably a pretty shitty strategy, but it's what I can think of. As far as improving my list in general, using what I have learned from your's, I can see a few things. Psykers make units much more effective than they should be, I need to brush up on the powers found in the main book and use my psykers more effectively. Allies are great for us and I may look into getting 1000 or so points or Dark Eldar or Tau, partly so I can have a small army of that force, but also to fill in some holes (flyers with the DE and small, but effective shooter with the Tau). I think, using the models I have (plus another unit of jetbikes that are in the mail), I need to place my models much more effectively, protect my artillery units better and use a distraction force to keep my opponent off of their back. I am also considering getting another five Wraitguard in order to make a Wraithguard troop unit to draw attention and hold the line, but that is neither here nor there.

Edit: Thinking about it more, I need more backup plans. If I lose one important unit (for instance, in my game last night my opponent got rid of my Wraithguard using CC before I could kill much more than a Land Raider and he immobilized Eldrad's transport before he could get anywhere near combat), my entire ghost of a strategy falls apart. Another thing that I learned from going over your list is that I need survivability, whether that's speed, cover or a Fortress, because we do not have it in our bodies.

Last edited by ambadasdor; 03-12-13 at 10:23 PM.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-13-13, 12:06 AM
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Ok now that I have a bit of time lets go over everything starting backwards.

As for your last post your list would have a very difficult fight with mine because the way yours is setup is that you go to the enemy. Eldar can play that game just as well as anyone but the thing that seperates us is the fact we are not as tough as other races. Nor do we have the numbers to take those losses like the Orks do.

Now I wasen't asking how you would beat mine but lets take a look at the proffered strategy. You are in essence hoping to draw me out, no arty you can take (yes not even a vibro cannon) could force me to come to you and with my 72' Multi Barrage strike I could easily kill what platforms or tanks you take. The reason being is the fact im hiding in AV 14 shells and you are not. Because you do not have a duable fire base to operate from this strategy won't work. You NEED something to shrug off long ranged fire power and foce them to head your way.

As for the seocnd part yes our Psykers are force multiplyers. You COULD take guide for 20+ points or just take MInd War (or some other low cost power) and swap it out for Prescience that not only does what Guide does but also allows re-rolls in CC. Belive it or not we don't actually need Eldrad anymore since we can take multiple farseers. Two Farseers with Fortune cost 170 points whereas Eldrad costs 210. You can see how important that 40 point difference is when you just want the two units fortuned. Now if you plan to rock the house with Eldrad you need to Roll on Telepathy and then he can really bring the pain to enemy units and playing MC's.

As for the stats on Tau and Deldar units you can see those at the back of the rulebook when you get a chance to read it. I reccomend going on Ebay and finding someone selling the smaller Rulebook for like 10 bucks instead of spending 40+ on the hardback.

Broadsides have a weapon called a Railgun, its Str 10 AP 1, range 72 inches and is twin linked. What I do with my farseers is I roll on the divination table and see if I can get the Perfect Timming power that allows me to ignore Cover saves, IF and ONLY IF i roll that power I put him with the Broadsides thus preventing any cover saves on the vehicles i am trying to shoot. PEOPLE HATE THAT!! If I don't get what I want I switch it out for the prime power and grab precience for the D-Cannons. The reason I told you this is because of how multi purpose each of my units are, not only the weapons they bring but the fact that the individual units can multiply different units.

If you plan on advancing your list you will want DE as they have a lot of good units that can advance and be durable or dangerous at the same time, if you want to sit back then you want Tau.

I also just noticed your edit, you are right on the money. The important thing to understand about why I use a Bastion and a Fortress is that most people CANNOT take their eyes off the 5 AV 14 bunkers on the table. They simply cannot ignore them and do everything they can to kill them off. I basically take them as a distraction, regardless of if they kill anything or not (oh they will) they keep my enemy looking right where I want him to look. Once my jetbikes come on the table they can hide behind the HUGE fortress and rush out winning me the game (if you have not see the FOrtress model it is VERY large). I am basically stalling until end game.

The next important thing to consider is target priortiy, what hurts you the most has to die first. In your army I don't want the Wraithguard rushing up to my Fortress so with my many Cover busting low AP attacks I will make sure that it drops and then finish the second serpent. After that you basically have nothing that can hurt me, this is the inherent weakness in your list. Instead of using D-Cannons try using the Spinner weapon, its only Str 6 but it does have a 48' range (you cannot hide from that) and it hits vehicles on the side armor allowing good chances at glancing or penetrating them.

Using your last models and the ones you have comming in the mail I would try using...

2000 Pts - Eldar Roster

Heavy Support: Dark Reapers
2 Dark Reapers, 147 pts ((pp.34 & 66 Eldar); Reaper Launcher)
1 Dark Reaper Exarch ( Crack Shot ; Tempest Launcher)

Heavy Support: Dark Reapers
2 Dark Reapers, 147 pts ((pp.34 & 66 Eldar); Reaper Launcher)
1 Dark Reaper Exarch ( Crack Shot ; Tempest Launcher)

Heavy Support: Support Weapon Battery
3 Support Weapon Battery , 90 pts ((pp.45 & 66 Eldar); Artillery; Shadow Weaver)
6 Guardians (Shuriken Catapult x6)

Elite: Wraithguard
1 Eldrad Ulthran, 210 pts ((pp.50-51 & 61 Eldar); Psyker (3); Doom ; Eldritch Storm ; Fortune ; Guide ; Mind War ; Divination; Ghosthelm; Rune Armour; Runes of Warding; Runes of Witnessing; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Pistol; Witchblade; Staff of Ulthamar; Independent Character; Warlord; 6E Psychic Disciplines: ; Divination; Telepathy)
1 Farseer, 140 pts ((pp.26, 28 & 60 Eldar); Psyker (2); Doom ; Fortune ; Fleet; Ghosthelm; Rune Armour; Runes of Witnessing; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Pistol; Witchblade; Independent Character)
3 Wraithguard, 250 pts ((pp.46 & 62 Eldar); Fearless; Wraithsight; Wraithcannon x3)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer, Tank); 12 model capacity; Energy Field; Star Engines; Vectored Engines; Shuriken Cannon; TL Shuriken Cannons; Jink)

Elite: Striking Scorpions
7 Striking Scorpions, 290 pts ((pp.33 & 62 Eldar); Mandiblaster; Scorpion Chainsword; Shuriken Pistol; Plasma Grenades)
1 Striking Scorpion Exarch ( Shadowstrike ; Stalker ; Mandiblaster; Scorpion Chainsword; Scorpion Claw; Plasma Grenades)
1 Wave Serpent ((pp.45 & 63 Eldar); Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer, Tank); 12 model capacity; Energy Field; Shuriken Cannon; TL Shuriken Cannons; Jink)

Troops: Guardian Jetbike Squadron
3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron, 134 pts ((pp.40 & 64 Eldar); Eldar Jetbike; Eldar Jetbike; Shuriken Cannon x1; TL Shuriken Catapults x2; Hammer of Wrath; Jink; Relentless)
1 Warlock ((pp.27-28 & 60 Eldar); Eldar Jetbike; Destructor ; Rune Armour; Eldar Jetbike; Shuriken Pistol; Singing Spear; TL Shuriken Catapults x1; Hammer of Wrath; Jink; Relentless)

Troops: Guardian Jetbike Squadron
3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron, 134 pts ((pp.40 & 64 Eldar); Eldar Jetbike; Eldar Jetbike; Shuriken Cannon x1; TL Shuriken Catapults x2; Hammer of Wrath; Jink; Relentless)
1 Warlock ((pp.27-28 & 60 Eldar); Eldar Jetbike; Destructor ; Rune Armour; Eldar Jetbike; Shuriken Pistol; Singing Spear; TL Shuriken Catapults x1; Hammer of Wrath; Jink; Relentless)

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers)
6 Pathfinders (Rangers), 144 pts ((pp.38 & 64 Eldar); Fleet; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Stealth; Ignore Difficult Terrain; Pathfinder Stealth; Scouts; Shuriken Pistol x6; Ranger Long Rifle)

Troops: Guardians
10 Guardians, 128 pts ((p.39 & p.64 Eldar); Fleet; Shuriken Catapult x10)
1 Warlock ((p.27-28 & p.60 Eldar); Embolden ; Fleet; Rune Armour; Shuriken Pistol; Singing Spear)
1 Weapon Platform (Scatter Laser)

Troops: Guardians
10 Guardians, 128 pts ((p.39 & p.64 Eldar); Fleet; Shuriken Catapult x10)
1 Warlock ((p.27-28 & p.60 Eldar); Embolden ; Fleet; Rune Armour; Shuriken Pistol; Singing Spear)
1 Weapon Platform (Scatter Laser)





Total Roster Cost: 1942

The Scorps don't use their Serpent and instead Infiltrate somewhere out of LOS so they don't get shot. You use the Scorps tank as a Gun Tank in the background. Eldrad goes Teleptahy to screw with enemy, other Farseer just supports with Fortune and stuff. Doom the targets the Pathfinders are going to shoot. WHile Eldrad's squad is in the tank, fortune the tank and then move it Flat Out.
Obviously the Dark Reapers deploy out of LOS and rain death on enemy. Re-rolls wounds due to Crackshot.
Shadow Weaver does the same thing

Deploy the Shadow Weaver and the Reapers in different locations at least 12 inches away if possible so the enemy does not have a certain location to focus on, make them spread out.

Guardians sit back and pew pew, you can give them lances or EML but it is a waste of points

Use the warlocks on the bikes to perform hit and run attacks on enemy Tanks and units, with Destructor you can run up and dakka down a unit and then retreat to safety.

also when you get a chance try out my My Guide if I have not already directed you to it. Lots of useful tips and tricks in there.

The Eldar, more than any other army, should not only look at the output of each unit individually, but the synergy of multiple units together and their role in the force as a whole. - Fable


Last edited by Ragewind; 03-13-13 at 12:10 AM.
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