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post #171 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-13-15, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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post #172 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 02:23 PM
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Fiar warning, this might be a little rambly...

Went against my necron friend again over the weekend and we proxied the canoptek harvest (spyder, scarabs, wraiths) along with his reclamation legion (warriors, immortals, tomb blades, overlord), and a c'tan. We basically ran the same core as the previous game i talked about but with different supporting groups.

KD List (Unbound Army)
Slaughtercult
Juggerlord with Goredrinker
CSM x 8 with a plasma gun
Berzerkers x 8 with Chain Axes
Bloodletters x 10 with instrument of chaos and banner of blood
Possessed x 5

War Engines
Soul Grinder with Baleful Torrent

Unbound KD Selection
Chaos Lord with the blood thirster axe
Bikers x3 with 2 meltaguns, champ with ccw and melta bombs
Bikers x3 with 2 meltaguns, champ with ccw and melta bombs
Land raider with no upgrades


Necron List - Decurian: Everything has 4+ RP
Reclamation Legion
Overlord with Void Reaper (fleshbane, armorbane, mastercrafted, ap2)
Immortals x 10
Lychguard x 5 (3++)
Tomb Blades x 3
Warriors x 10
Warriors x 10
Ghost Ark

Canoptek Harvest
Tomb Spyder x1
Wraiths x 3 (3++)
Scarabs x 3

Auxiliary
Deathmarks x 5
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer


The game unfolded tactically in the same manner as before. I ran everything forward into his gun line and let the chips fall where they may. I won't get into the details but i lost the game by victory points and by the end of it both armies were running on fumes in terms of models left. There was a lot of combat and a lot of slaughter. I had two bloodthirsters in back to back turns from the death of a lord and from the tithe.

So, about the wraiths...He only brought 3 and i found them to be tough but i had put all my beatsticks in or behind the land raider so they got assaulted by 8 berzerkers, 1 chaos lord with the BT axe, and the juggerlord. Thats a boat load of WS5+ attacks backed up by power armor. With AP-, the wraiths weren't able to kill anything, but they did last a couple rounds of combat even facing such a large mass of attacks. I think they are probably gnarlier in a larger group, but the AP- of their attacks makes me less

The real killers are the the lychguard. They are swinging AP3 weapons and have a 3++ and the 4+ RP save. THey killed all 8 zerkers in the first round of combat they charged in with some good rolls...then they and the overlord battled my juggerlord and a bloodthirster for the rest of the game. THrough 4 rounds of combat, the bloodthirster killed a whopping 2 or 3 of the lychguard and the overlord and juggerlord battled each other down to one wound a piece.

Some random thoughts...

Bloodletters - not to be brought in with DS. The fact that they sit in a clump for a round of shooting meant that they did nothing other than bring the soul grinder with them via the instrument of chaos and then got blown to bits my blast weapon wielding tomb blades. I think in my army loadout they are best used inside the landraider.

Berzerkers - they put in work, certainly, but are so expensive compared to the bloodletters that i don't think i'll use them anymore. They are a like a top shelf hooker...they are totally fun to use and you like having them around but at the end of the day you can get 90% of the experience for way less money.

Soul Grinder - dude fucks up necrons, thats all there is to it. The baleful torrent with this AP4 roasts warriors and put him in combat with his 4 S10 instant death attacks helps you chew through the reanimate protocol. Scatter-free DS with the BoB bloodletters is great synergy for this guy.

Land Raider - since this isn't a part of the war machines formation you have to bring a whole CAD or go unbound to bring it in...that annoys me.

So far the best synergy i've found is to use the landraider to bring in a primary combat force that gets supported by a secondary combat force. I've tried zerkers supported by a juggerlord/BT and bloodletters supported by a termi lord/soul grinder. I'm leaning towards the bloodletter set. The next game i'm going to go back to bloodletters and use warp talons as the supporting unit since they are a daemon of khorne now and will be able to DS without scatter. A land raider dropping 10 bloodletters and a juggerlord gorepack, then getting the warp talons and soul grinder will make a nice hammer. Or, splitting the hammer with the juggerlord gorepack going one way and the land raider bloodletters/warp talons/soul grinder going another way.

Meanwhile i'd still have the melta bikes and CSM running around for objectives and armor hunting.
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post #173 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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They are a like a top shelf hooker...they are totally fun to use and you like having them around but at the end of the day you can get 90% of the experience for way less money.
I'll have to keep that in mind .


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post #174 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 06:41 PM
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I'll have to keep that in mind .


Best analogy i could think of. If you look at the two units on a charge, yes you get many more attacks from the berzerkers but at AP- unless you spend the points for chain axes.

Zerkers - 4 WS5, S5, AP- Attacks - 19ppm
Bloodleters - 2 WS5, S5, AP3 Attacks - 10ppm

For double the cost you get twice as many attacks (great!) and power armor (but no invuln like the letters)...and i guess another toughness as well but the lack of AP is killer. Though my analysis could be heavily skewed based on the fact that i fight necrons 98% of the time. The gap is probably a lot smaller if you are fighting lightly armored dudes who aren't throwing AP3 attacks themselves. Still though, i think i'd take bloodletters for the DS daemon synergy.
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post #175 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 07:17 PM
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Honestly there is nothing that CSM won't do just the sama as Zerkers. They might be fearless...but at 6 pts more per model. SInce they are good at fighting squishy targets, i'd say that cultists do that better. And no one cries when they die...

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post #176 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 07:20 PM
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Honestly there is nothing that CSM won't do just the sama as Zerkers. They might be fearless...but at 6 pts more per model.
Have to take 2 units from CSM, BLs, or Zerkers for the slaughtercult so thats why i am fiddling with all three.

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SInce they are good at fighting squishy targets, i'd say that cultists do that better. And no one cries when they die...
How so?
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post #177 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 07:23 PM
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Bloodletters - not to be brought in with DS. The fact that they sit in a clump for a round of shooting meant that they did nothing other than bring the soul grinder with them via the instrument of chaos and then got blown to bits my blast weapon wielding tomb blades.
The DS is pretty useful when you have to claim a Maelstrom objective or threaten a lone backfield unit, but... yeah, they're fragile. Do bear in mind you can Run to spread out the turn they DS in for some blast protection, but... much dedicated shooting aimed at them and they'll go poof.

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Berzerkers - they put in work, certainly, but are so expensive compared to the bloodletters that i don't think i'll use them anymore. They are a like a top shelf hooker...they are totally fun to use and you like having them around but at the end of the day you can get 90% of the experience for way less money.
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Land Raider - since this isn't a part of the war machines formation you have to bring a whole CAD or go unbound to bring it in...that annoys me.
A CAD at least allows for some ObSec, so you can lock down some objectives. Plus, hey, Rhinos make for cheap Blood Points and transports in the FA slot, just not being Assault (which is the clincher).

That the Bloodletters are only I4 hurts them, I think, for how fragile they are. A lot of Eldar/DE/Wraiths and stuff will make them poof before they get to strike--but against 3+ armor I4 or lower opponents, they certainly do work. When not assaulting into cover with no assault grenades.

In the Zerkers vs Letters, the much higher cost of Zerkers/potential Blood Point is offset by buying the Zerkers a Rhino or something, while the Bloodletters... well, buying them a Land Raider is an expensive ride.

Soul Grinders ruin folks' days, certainly. I wish there was some way to compensate for its BS3 & WS3 without, say, bringing a Lord of Change for Prescience in the area or something, but...

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post #178 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 07:30 PM
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The DS is pretty useful when you have to claim a Maelstrom objective or threaten a lone backfield unit, but... yeah, they're fragile. Do bear in mind you can Run to spread out the turn they DS in for some blast protection, but... much dedicated shooting aimed at them and they'll go poof.



A CAD at least allows for some ObSec, so you can lock down some objectives. Plus, hey, Rhinos make for cheap Blood Points and transports in the FA slot, just not being Assault (which is the clincher).

That the Bloodletters are only I4 hurts them, I think, for how fragile they are. A lot of Eldar/DE/Wraiths and stuff will make them poof before they get to strike--but against 3+ armor I4 or lower opponents, they certainly do work. When not assaulting into cover with no assault grenades.

In the Zerkers vs Letters, the much higher cost of Zerkers/potential Blood Point is offset by buying the Zerkers a Rhino or something, while the Bloodletters... well, buying them a Land Raider is an expensive ride.

Soul Grinders ruin folks' days, certainly. I wish there was some way to compensate for its BS3 & WS3 without, say, bringing a Lord of Change for Prescience in the area or something, but...
You know, i haven't really had an issue with the BS3 on the grinder since i've given him the torrent flamer. That thing mauls dudes at S6 AP4, i figure whatever i get with the harvester cannon is just icing.

I can definitely see a shortcoming in my analysis against high I armies. Necrons are almost universally I2, but of course half of the ones you kill get back up. I could see a high I / low armor army swinging the load out into the berzerker's favor with their armor save being much better than the letters.

I also did not realize i could run after DS'ing, so that is good to know.
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post #179 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 07:50 PM
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Have to take 2 units from CSM, BLs, or Zerkers for the slaughtercult so thats why i am fiddling with all three.



How so?

1) save points and take CSM or Bloodletters. Zerkers are glorified marines.
2) If you take 8 zerkers, you are bringing 20 cultists. Even with greater resilience and armour, cultists last longer. admittedly, leadership is an issue with them, but when you face elite army such as necrons, you want horde. if both units get to melee unschated, 8 zers will pump out 4 attacks each = 33 (+1 for the champ) for an average of 7 wounds inflicted to the usual necron warrios, while the cultists will pump out 81 attacks for an average of 6 wounds. Shure, lower than 1, but here's the catch. When charge bonus ends, zerkers will just make 2 attacks each; with 8 bodies...they are 16 attacks. Cultists will still pump out 40 attacks. And here is where they are better, they have enogugh bodies to keep pushing. Zerkers win first round of melee or just die of attrition. Each zerker is a serious loss in your attack value. Each cultists is just a chink in your dice pile.
Previous calculations are not considering the death of any of your models, but remember that after enemy retaliation, each dead zerker is worth 1/8 of your group, while each cultist impact only 1/20th of the total. They might die easier, but they count 1/3 of a zerker ;)
This of course is valid if you pit them against low-tier infantry. Vs terminators or say, spawns or Wraiths, you are not really using Zerkers, right??

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The calls of Slaneesh stir so deeply within me, as if I was birthed from the very essence of it. For my ambition to infinitely ascend above all is never ending, like fire within it burns me to ever cindering ash. Lord of light and ascension is who I am, realities burn to ash at my very passing. My luminescence is unparalleled for I am luminosity itself, all light is but a shadow of my silhouette
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post #180 of 226 (permalink) Old 04-20-15, 07:58 PM
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thing is, i can't fit 20 cultists in a transport so i don't think that's a fair comparison. You won't get all 20 into combat by running them down the road. The other thing is, zerkers and BLs are fearless so i don't have to worry about losing combat. This is especially important against 4+ RP necrons because there have been many times where i've lost combat due to the RP rolls. With their already low LD, a wound deficit of even 1 is going to be trouble for a cultist blob in resolving combat.

There is nothing more demoralizing than a non-fearless unit getting sweeping advanced by necron warriors because they lost combat by 1 wound and then had spectacularly awful LD and I rolls, ask me how i know, lol.

Last edited by GuiltySparc; 04-20-15 at 08:00 PM.
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