What to Do Mk. II (Or, Tactica: 6e CSM in 7e) - Page 7 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #61 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 09:33 AM
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In the Imperial Armour Apoc 2013 book it actually changed the rules for Necro slightly to add in the rule of plague zombies the same as Typhus ones, and also that he gives the cultist ones the furious charge rule.
The link i gave is the old free version when they updated the chars from the old IA5-6-7 to 6th edition for the first time. Imperial Armour Apoc 2013 revisited them after that and included all the additional changes i put in my posts.
The other major change was that the Alpha Legion guy got a better weapon. But all were changed very slightly from that linked update. The link i gave was mainly to be used as reference or if someone does not have access to the book they can use them at least as shown there. But if they have the IA Apoc 2013 the rules are slightly better.

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post #62 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-16-14, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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To my great dismay, I've... I've actually realize one sizable advantage that a Defiler holds over a Soul Grinder.

When fighting a Knight, provided the Defiler doesn't get blown up before striking... it has Daemonforge to add to its S10 melee attacks. Want to really put the pain on that Knight?

...All right, I suppose that Maulerfiends can pull that same trick. Whew, still no need to take Defilers.

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post #63 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-16-14, 09:40 PM
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I remember when Defilers were awesome and new... then with the pair of Fiends and the Grinders / Plague Hulk they got religated to the trash heap of ever expanding "Why would you have one of those in a serious army" models. So only get taken if you have bought one accidently or didn't know better.
Though one of the models in that pile ends up in some of my lists, and that is Mutilators, who just perform soooooo well in planet strike games cos of deepstrike and charge on the same turn for aggressors.

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post #64 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-17-14, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
So only get taken if you have bought one accidently or didn't know better.
Heh that might have been me...

I started playing with the old 4th/5th edition codex and got "oooohhhhh SHINY!!!!" syndrome when I saw the Defiler

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post #65 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-17-14, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
So only get taken if you have bought one accidently or didn't know better.
Honestly, uh... I know I've said it before, but I had 2 (one bought when they were new and one acquired from a friend's army-sale), and I tore them both up to make Soul Grinders.

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post #66 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-30-14, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Reconsidering Rhinos:

In this day and age where mech is viable again, let us cast our gaze back at Rhinos. I've played quite a few games against armies that spam OS units, and they're hard as hell to mop up before the end of the game, and if any members of those squads or their transports survive, they score on an objective even if your Imperial Knight or super-killy doom deathstar are also in range of the objective right there.

They do still pose real risk of giving up an easy First Blood (and on that rare mission where you have Kill Points, those too), but they more than counter-balance that in any mission with objectives by your ability to split up and cover as much ground as possible with cheap, low-threat units. Obviously, if you're bringing several Rhinos, you'll want to bring other armor too: Vindicators, Predators, Daemon Engines, whatever, just make sure that enemy Anti-Tank weapons are focused on the dangerous units, rather than the scorers you want alive until late game (or that, if your opponent focuses on the scorers, you have some serious pain moving in their direction very fast).

Can Chaos pull such a maneuver? Yes. Indubitably. They can't combat-squad Marines, or anything, but they do have several good options available:

5x Noise Marines with Blastmaster
- Rhino with havoc launcher

That's a moderately hefty 172 points there, but it's two fearless Objective Secured scoring units with a blastmaster and havoc launcher laying down long-range covering fire, and if that don't make you happy...


5x CSM w/ meltagun, champ w/ combi-melta
- Rhino w/ combi-melta

140 points here, but you could save a good many by dropping combi-meltas. Just taking 5 CSM with a plasma gun in a Rhino is also an option. Take 2 of these for 4 fairly mobile, low threat OS units, and you're basically battle-forged. You can also throw on a dirge caster so that these Rhinos, which shouldn't be big enemy targets on early turns, can get close enough to save a wound or two from Overwatch against your Spawn/Bikers/Seekers/whatever.

If you're running Be'lakor or a Biker Sorc that rolls Shrouding, throw the Rhinos behind your mobile (probably jinking) units that are already getting great cover--enemies shooting through that unit towards your Rhino in the Shrouded bubble are going to be facing a pretty damn great 3+ cover save! Or if you want your Rhino out in front of a squishier target (say, Spawn), you can pop smoke to get that 3+, while they can provide that 3+ to units behind them!

A Rhino Rush making a 3+ cover wall for your entire army on Turn 1--what's not to like?

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post #67 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-11-14, 05:23 PM
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Will try to update my list of Chaosy Impy Armour stuff with the new booky I got today... and good/bad news... They didn't give Zhufor, Necro or Arkos new rules (so still Imp Apoc 2013 for them. Though on a cursory scan they made the Renegades and Heretics a bit better.

Grass Brassy stayed the same what is sad, and no Lord of Skulls in there... Also no Knight for Chaos yet... though in one of the Q&A Sessions they did say they would probably be doing a conversion kit.
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post #68 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 07:40 AM Thread Starter
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Musing on Light Infantry:

We've all faced it. A squad of guardsmen, 5 tactical marines in a combat squad, some guardians or kabalite trueborn or... some fire warriors.

In any case, an enemy squad that should be easy to mop up on the assault alone with your brutal melee character. You will rend them asunder like none other! Decorate the earth with their blood! Break their will and hack them to bits as they flee! You shall stand there, chest heaving, surrounded by their broken corpses... exposed to enemy shooting.

Yeah, you'll wipe them and then the enemy player will turn his gunline to bear on your precious, exposed character.

So, how to counterbalance that? Deliberately sabotage your assault to leave juuust enough enemy survivors that you'll finish the foe come next round.

This idea came up in @venomlust 's Senseless List Thread:

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Originally Posted by venomlust View Post
It's frustrating, because the HQs are so potent in combat that they're going to wipe out a unit of infantry on their own. It isn't 10 Space Marines, it's 10 Fire Warriors. So inevitably, I end up in the obviously predictable position of it being the enemy's turn and my chopmasters can't do anything about being shot to death.
My reply?

"Honestly, that's a defensive mechanism as I see it. With such crappy stats, mediocre Ld, and dirt poor I, they want to lose combat, run away, and get slaughtered so that their player can shoot you immediately in the next turn. You might honestly consider, say, attacking with your bolt pistol as a basic CCW (according to the rulebook, pg 42), so that you stick in combat only killing 2ish FWs, then switch over to AoBF in their turn's assault phase.

Yeah, you got that right. Kharn charges in and starts... brutally smacking people with his plasma pistol."

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post #69 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 04:24 PM
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That is definitely a great solution to this problem. I can't wait to try it out!


SUFFER NOT THE PONY TO LIVE.

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post #70 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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You do have to consider it a moderate-sized gamble, though. If you have any real retinue, they'll also shred such light infantry... so you may have to split off to charge in on your own (or hope your opponent have killed almost all of your bikers/spawn, whatever). I suppose it'll let you split off to take out multiple targets, if you're in range, but... frees up a counter-assault against your lone, vulnerable character by a Riptide or Dreadnought, or something. Or opens the chance of something going terribly wrong and the enemy fleeing anyways.

The ideal enemy here, I guess, would be the tactical marine combat squad. They're ineffectual in combat, but thanks to ATSKNF, most likely stick around even if you kill a few by biker attacks, or something, and easy enough to mop up by switching to beast mode.

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What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
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