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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-05-11, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Default 2000pt and 2500 pt black legion

Two seperate lists. Basically I just threw in a squad of terminators and two defilers from the 2000 pt list for the extra 500. I know for sure Im going up against death guard, so keep that in mind. List can be tweaked for other opponents.

2000 pt list

Demon Prince-wings, mark of Tzeentch, gift of chaos, doombolt
-205 pts (i know gift of chaos is not popular but I cant help it)

9 thousand sons (1 sorceror)-w/doombolt, icon
rhino w/demonic possession
329 pts

10 Berserkers w/skull champion w/power fist, melta bombs
rhino w/demonic possession
310 pts

10 plague marines champion w/ power sword, 2 meltas, icon
rhino w/demonic possession
340 pts

10 CSM- melta gun, champion w/power fist, icon
rhino w/ demonic possession
260 pts

10 CSM- melta gun, champion w/power fist, icon
rhino w/ demonic possession
260 pts

Vindicator w/ demonic possession-145

Obliterator-75

Obliterator-75

1999 pts TOTAL

2500 List

Demon Prince-(as above)
205 pts

6 terminators-chainfist
195pts

10 berserkers w/rhino (as above minus the meltabombs)
305pts

9 Thousand Sons w/rhino-(as above)
329

10 Plague marines w/ rhino (as above)
340

10 Chaos Marines w/rhino (as above)
260 pts

10 Chaos Marines w/rhino (as above but w/ 2 melta guns)
270 pts

Vindicator- demonic possession
145

Obliterator-75

Obliterator-75

Defiler-150

Defiler-150

2499 pts TOTAL

The Defilers make me a little nervous, I would almost like to have another squad of chaos marines in their stead, (im a troop heavy type of general) but Im going to see how it plays out. I really wish I could have fit Slaanesh in there somehow but it wasn't really practical. Thanks!
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-05-11, 08:32 PM
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Okay, suggestions for both lists:

Daemon Prince - Take off MoT, get rid of both powers and take Warptime instead.

Terminators - Generally not worth taking, best taken with a Land Raider transport. Alternatively, 3-man combi-weapon spam are a good alternative. As they are, they're quite expensive and not really very tough. Mark of Slannesh gives them a boost against I4 MEQ, LCs might be worth considering against higher toughness Plague Marines.

Just a few thoughts. Not sure how you are for what models you have so I tried not to change it too much (in composition, at least.)

Troops: Get rid of Daemonic Possession on ALL the Rhinos. It's not worth the points on a 35pts vehicle...

Thousand Sons are fine - I'd drop the Personal Icon though.
Berserkers - drop meltabombs
Plague Marines are fine - I'd drop the Personal Icon though.
CSM - get as many special weapons into these squads as you can - double melta / double plasma in each. Take Icon of Chaos Glory in each squad in place of the Personal Icon

I'm not sure what Force Organisation Chart you're playing with, but the standard one only allows you to have 3 Heavy Support choices. You have far more than this...

Defilers are better than Vindicators against Death Guard - S8 is all you need to ID them and the Battlecannon can do that easily enough at a much longer range than the Demolisher Cannon. They can also be used to tie up squads in combat in a pinch.
Oblits are good, but you may have to join them together to solve the overcrowding of the HS slots.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-06-11, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asura Varuna View Post
Okay, suggestions for both lists:

Daemon Prince - Take off MoT, get rid of both powers and take Warptime instead.

Terminators - Generally not worth taking, best taken with a Land Raider transport. Alternatively, 3-man combi-weapon spam are a good alternative. As they are, they're quite expensive and not really very tough. Mark of Slannesh gives them a boost against I4 MEQ, LCs might be worth considering against higher toughness Plague Marines.

Just a few thoughts. Not sure how you are for what models you have so I tried not to change it too much (in composition, at least.)

Troops: Get rid of Daemonic Possession on ALL the Rhinos. It's not worth the points on a 35pts vehicle...

Thousand Sons are fine - I'd drop the Personal Icon though.
Berserkers - drop meltabombs
Plague Marines are fine - I'd drop the Personal Icon though.
CSM - get as many special weapons into these squads as you can - double melta / double plasma in each. Take Icon of Chaos Glory in each squad in place of the Personal Icon

I'm not sure what Force Organisation Chart you're playing with, but the standard one only allows you to have 3 Heavy Support choices. You have far more than this...

Defilers are better than Vindicators against Death Guard - S8 is all you need to ID them and the Battlecannon can do that easily enough at a much longer range than the Demolisher Cannon. They can also be used to tie up squads in combat in a pinch.
Oblits are good, but you may have to join them together to solve the overcrowding of the HS slots.
Thanks for the input, good words, here are my thoughts as they come to me reading your review.

-I would consider dropping gift of chaos but im not so sure Id drop MOT and Bolt of Change, I still want him to be a threat and soak up more shots with 4 invul. save

-I actually did consider giving them mark of slaanesh even if just to get all 4 marks in there for fluff, and its definitely practical gamewise, ill have to make room for that.

-I cant disagree any more about taking demonic possession off the rhino, its too easy to get a stunned result and not be able to move for a turn, definitely cant afford that. Maybe Ill take extra armor, but if theres a shaken result, the crew inside cant shoot, am I correct? In the last game I played with this list (2000 pt) that was a big part of my game, shooting meltas out of my rhinos.

-Im using the personal icons to deep strike the obliterators and terminators so availability is key, I want to have a choice as to their location of deep strike. Meltabombs make the Khorne more capable in case a heavy tank rolls along I can be opportunistic.

-Yes, im not quite sure how force organization works in a 2500 pt game, the book wasnt very explicit, they just stated it be decided between players. Id assume just one more slot is available to each position (hq, troop, hvy, etc). How does it work in Ard boyz?

Thanks for the input, Ill post the changes.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-17-11, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, playing with this list tomorrow and were using standard force organization chart which means ill either have to drop the 2 obliterators (as one squad) or the vindicator. Against death guard I love the two defilers and Im thinking of dropping the vindi and adding one more obliterator to the squad. Remember Im playing against Death Guard. Any thoughts? If I do add the third obliterator and drop the vindi ill have 75 points to spare, another predicament. (a fun one though!)

Last edited by sleepcascade; 09-17-11 at 04:48 AM.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-17-11, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepcascade View Post
-I cant disagree any more about taking demonic possession off the rhino, its too easy to get a stunned result and not be able to move for a turn, definitely cant afford that. Maybe Ill take extra armor, but if theres a shaken result, the crew inside cant shoot, am I correct? In the last game I played with this list (2000 pt) that was a big part of my game, shooting meltas out of my rhinos.
If you read the Daemonic Possession rule you'll notice that only the vehicle itself ignores shake and stunned results. The transported passengers are still affected normally. Thus you'd be far better off taking extra armor.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-17-11, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by capnmoe View Post
If you read the Daemonic Possession rule you'll notice that only the vehicle itself ignores shake and stunned results. The transported passengers are still affected normally. Thus you'd be far better off taking extra armor.
Just reread that whole rule, thank you so much, I guess I havent read that one through in a while. That was the only reason I was taking DP over extra armour, assuming my passengers could fire. Im about to post my revision list.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-17-11, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Here it is, after much debate, I would've liked one more troop selection in there but sometimes throwin in the big guns (Land Raider) is what you got to do. It totally enables the Terminators to be much more effective. What do you suggest, I could fit another smaller squad of berserkers in there with a rhino or even a simple marine squad, the thought of that is so tempting. Land Raiders are just hard for me to use in games for some reason.
The thought of using it as an assault vehicle, which is fully me intent, makes me think it will not last long among a hail of melta fire. AHHH, im so tempted to throw in a squad of eight berserkers in a rhino. What do you think?

Demon Prince- wings, mark of tzeentch, wind of chaos
180 pts

5 terminators-mark of slaanesh
165pts
w/ Land Raider w/Demonic Possession
240 pts

10 Berserkers w/skull champion w/power weapon, melta bombs
rhino w/extra armour
295 pts

9 thousand sons (1 sorceror)-w/bolt of change, icon
rhino w/extra armour
324 pts

10 plague marines champion w/ power sword, 2 meltas, icon
rhino w/extra armour
335 pts

10 Chaos Marines w/rhino w/extra armour, champ w/power weapon, 2x meltas, icon
255 pts

10 Chaos Marines w/rhino w/extra armour, champ w/power weapon, 2x meltas, icon
255 pts

2 Obliterators-150

Defiler-150

Defiler-150

(Land Raider Dedicated transport)

2499 pts TOTAL

Last edited by sleepcascade; 09-17-11 at 02:52 PM.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-17-11, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Alternate list (that I personally like better, Im a troops heavy kind of guy)
Terminators would certainly be deep striking and Obliterators very well might too. Hes going to be packing a Land Raider with termies, But if I can deep strike Oblits, have em blow it up and get a terminator squad that out mans them 6 to 5 and goes first in combat (slaanesh), Ill feel good about that. Plus, you can never get enough troops, I love having that extra berserker squad in.


Demon Prince- wings, mark of tzeentch, wind of chaos
180 pts

6 terminators-mark of slaanesh
195pts

8 Berserkers w/skull champion w/power weapon, melta bombs
rhino w/extra armour
253 pts

8 Berserkers w/skull champion w/power weapon, melta bombs
rhino w/extra armour
253 pts

9 thousand sons (1 sorceror)-w/bolt of change, icon
rhino w/extra armour
324 pts

10 plague marines champion w/ power sword, 2 meltas, icon
rhino w/extra armour
335 pts

10 Chaos Marines w/rhino w/extra armour, champ w/power weapon, 2x meltas, icon
255 pts

10 Chaos Marines w/rhino w/extra armour, champ w/power weapon, 2x meltas, icon
255 pts

2 Obliterators-150

Defiler-150

Defiler-150

2500 pts TOTAL

Last edited by sleepcascade; 09-17-11 at 03:17 PM.
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