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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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CSM? how do you start off well?

I having played Necrons (obiviously). I have recently been overwhelmed by the idea of starting my second army of CSM, and i was wondering about what I should start my collection with. I would need to start with a relativly small army. From about 500 to 750 pts. I am interested in the Red Corsairs paint job, so I want Huron BlackHeart. I've read much about him fluff and the little tactics and battle reports involving him, and he is the HQ i would like to have to start my army with. I have heard how he is relativly weak, or not as effective as a Demon Prince or Kharn the Betrayer, but he is the model and a big reason why I want to collect CSM in the first place. The army wouldstart as a Chaos Undivided (which is what i guess is the equavilent of vanilla SM)
So my orginal plan was to get a CSM battle force and 1more rhino, depending on the costs. After that I'd like to get a Demon Prince hopefully soon down the road instead of later but depending on replies I could possibly wait. Playing i'm sure i'l find the god I'd ike my army to have(probably Khorne ) and i will expand on the army accordingly

So starting i'd have
HQ
Huron BlackHeart
Troops
15 CSM
8 Khorne Zerks
1 or 2 Rhinos
Elites
5 possessed

After that
- DemonPrince
but once i get to there i am clueless with wht to get
*note i will be getting the codex the same time i get the first part of my army soon


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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 12:05 PM
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I dont have a chaos codex handy but you could stand to lose the possessed. They really are not worth the points compaired to the 'zerkers in the troop slot. your 15 marines could be plauge with special weapons in rhinos. Your prince... Arguably the best two are the nurgle prince and lash prince. Lash prince is a prince with wings, mark of slaanesh and lash of submission. Its fairly cheep and its the mainstay in most chaos tourney lists. Nurgle prince has wings, mark of nurgle, and nurgles rot. it jumps into swarms and mows them down I usualy go with the lash prince minus the lash. Its cheep and makes a reletively good HQ killer, especially in pairs as it mostly goes first.
But I think if you lost the possessed you could add some heavy guns in it, a pair of oblits, maybe a pread.
If im missing the point of the list please let me know, i might be missing the concept
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 01:09 PM
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I would definitely start by building up some heavy support options, possibly a defiler or some oblits... defiler if you are going with khorne as you can give it extra close combat weapons.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 01:45 PM
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For a fluff army, you need hit and run tactics. Decisive strikes with fast units. As Harvix said go heavy. Defiler would be a good unit at such a low points set, but will lose effectiveness in higher points as everyone will have more and more big guns to target it. Likewise keep your troops mechinised with rhinos.

I think something like
Huron
5 Plauge marines with 2 melta guns and rhino
5 Plauge marines with 2 melta guns and rhino
8 Zerkers with rhino
Defiler
2 Oblits
Not a clue what the points amount to but Id say something like this would give you a good base of fire really.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 01:50 PM
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I would recommend something like this:

HQ- Huron 170pts
Your right that he isn't the best HQ out their for csm but I run with a chaos lord which everyone says are terrible and he has owned on more than 1 occasion.

Troop- 10 CSM (AC w/ Powerfist, Melta-gun and Plasma Gun, Rhino) 250
A basic setup for vanilla marines. Got the power fist and melta-gun to deal with enemy vehicles. Plasma gun to deal with ap2 units and the rhino to get you to objectives. Kit them out with some bolters and maybe a few chainswords and bolt pistols to give them more of an edge (literally) in close combat. Might want to consider giving these a mark too but that really depends on what army your up against

Troop- 8 Zerkers (AC w/Powerfist) 208
Possibly the best troop in the codex, these guys can stand toe-to-toe with most units in CC. Just make sure they get the charge as 33 S5 attacks is painful . You could give these your rhino just remember they wouldn't be able to charge from it

HS- 3 Obliterators 225
These guys are to good not to take in any list. Lots of weapons for every situation. Get them in a good vantage point and shoot everything that moves that isn't red and spikey

I've gone over your 500-750 point limit but you can just drop an obliterator and it should be ok. Hope this helps

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 03:06 PM
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Alright, so lets look over what you will have to start with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecronNoob View Post
So starting i'd have
HQ
Huron BlackHeart
Troops
15 CSM
8 Khorne Zerks
1 or 2 Rhinos
Elites
5 possessed
Depending on what you want to do with the possessed, use them as possessed or as something else, you have access to eight berzerkers, up to twenty chaos marines, or fifteen and five possessed or five chosen. Alongside the Tyrant and a pair of rhino's thats not a bad start of things.

HQ:
Huron
-You want the guy as your starting HQ, so starting HQ unit he is.

Troops:
Chaos marines
10x Marines; 2x meltaguns; aspiring champion; powerfist
Rhino

Khorne Berzerkers
7x Berzerkers; skull champion; powerfist
Rhino

Elites:
Chosen
5x Chosen; 3x plasmaguns

Total: 752

With this, you still have five more models left to work with when your army expands in size. A big thing about five hundred point armies is how little you will end up having, because the big thing is to try and maintain some form of speed/protection while cramming as much as you can. (Hell, even with the above seven fifty list, those points are eaten up very quickly. After just getting the basic HQ and two troops, there was less than a hundred points left to work with.)


The above list uses what your going to get, likely with a few liberties in regards to the number of meltaguns/plasmaguns you'll have access to, and gives you a mobile force that is decent in close combat and is capable of packing a punch from the start.


CE5511; what are plauge marines? Are they anything like plague marines or are they just the lesser run-off/shameful past of something else?

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 03:08 PM
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Why are you using Huron over Kharn? Kharn is by far the better choice, for 5 points less as well. His ability to kill anything from landraiders to ironclad dreadnoughts and down (while hitting 1st against anything not DE/'nid) is second to none. Remember, just because you like the Red Corsair's paintjob doesn't mean you can't paint up Kharn or a Kharn conversion as a Red Corsair and simply call him something else :-P

Main downfall is he isn't an eternal warrior, but then again neither is Huron.


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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 03:48 PM
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@Darkreever: Ummmm... yea, my brain is fried... and scrambled
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 05:25 PM
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Possessed are perfect for part-swapping, so do as Reevs said. Give the arms to champions or somesuch, and use them as Chosen.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-11, 08:59 PM
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While Plague Marines are a better choice, not all opponents will be happy with you using regular CSM to represent them. (I've had this issue, though I think it might have been because he wanted an excuse not to play against dual lash when he had no Psychic defence). Regular marines are still a good choice though, probably a little fluffier too, if you're planning on mixing different cult troops. Plague Marines aren't a must; they're good, but there are other choices there too.
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