Chaos, I don't get it, help this poor fool. - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #21 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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but the lash is so nice

Cheers for all the advice, especially the couple of constructive posts there at the end.

I'll go 100% Tzeentch throughout, I may not win 'em, all, but I'll look damn good while I fail!




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post #22 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 07:35 PM
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Good for you! There's nothing I can't stand more than people who say "run this or YOU LOSE!" and that only 10% of a codex should even be considered. Nothing is so useless that it should be completely crossed out of its respective codex. Granted, some things don't have MANY uses, and those uses don't always end up actually occurring in a game.... but everything has some use somewhere... except for Dark Eldar.

The trick is to exploit the advantages of whatever you choose to stick with as much as you can. For example, for your Tzeentch Princes, one of the best psychic powers they can take is Gift of Chaos.

I play very Undivided/Mixed God lists, and I've actually recently stopping running my princes as Lash Princes, since my friends are now usually counting on it. After a little experimenting, I've pretty much converted to using Tzeentch princes with Gift + something else (usually Bolt of Change, sometimes Warptime) even if I'm NOT going for Tzeentch theme.

Why Gift? Well, it's usable in CC, doesn't count as shooting so you don't have to assault who you use it on, it's frickin hilarious to make Eldar players cry when you insta-gib their Farseers without their precious inv save rerolls (or even a Hive Tyrant if you roll a 6!)... oh, and because Mark of Tzeentch lets you do it TWICE!

On a non-Tzeentch Prince, Gift isn't nearly reliable or destructive enough to take as your only psychic power IMO. It's devastating in the right situation, but only works 1/3 of the time against two of the most common armies played (Space Marines and Orks,) has a short range, and has to be used before you move. By itself it's kind of lame... but with Mark of Tzeentch it becomes a LOT better. Being able to take both it and another, more reliable power makes it a lot more forgiving to take that "what the hell" shot at turning a Warboss into a Chaos Spawn, not to mention being able to do it twice while locked in close combat makes that 5+ roll against SM and Ork armies twice as likely to happen.

Last edited by Bloodcuddler of Khorne; 09-23-10 at 07:44 PM.
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post #23 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bloodcuddler of Khorne View Post
Good for you! There's nothing I can't stand more than people who say "run this or YOU LOSE!" and that only 10% of a codex should even be considered. Nothing is so useless that it should be completely crossed out of its respective codex. Granted, some things don't have MANY uses, and those uses don't always end up actually occurring in a game.... but everything has some use somewhere... except for Dark Eldar.
Sacrilege! Dark Eldar are awesome! They have Ravagers and Wyches and....Ravagers....

OK fine.

I've actually been doing the same thing with my DPs of late, though I'm more of a Warptime/Shooty power guy myself.


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post #24 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bloodcuddler of Khorne View Post
Why Gift? Well, it's usable in CC, doesn't count as shooting so you don't have to assault who you use it on, it's frickin hilarious to make Eldar players cry when you insta-gib their Farseers without their precious inv save rerolls (or even a Hive Tyrant if you roll a 6!)... oh, and because Mark of Tzeentch lets you do it TWICE!
...


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it's usable in CC, doesn't count as shooting so you don't have to assault ... it's frickin hilarious to make Eldar players cry when you insta-gib their Farseers ... oh, and because Mark of Tzeentch lets you do it TWICE!
...


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doesn't count as shooting so you don't have to assault ... ... Mark of Tzeentch lets you do it TWICE!

YOU SIR! are a goddamn genius. So much info to take in learning about a new army, that little nugget completely slipped me by..... goodbye lash you shonky piece of leftover yesterday cheese.. Hellllllooooooo Spawnses!

Have some rep for that juicy tip...... I'm pretty sure juicy tips are a Slaanesh thingy but meh, was awesome anyway.




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post #25 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 09:10 PM
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YOU SIR! are a goddamn genius. So much info to take in learning about a new army, that little nugget completely slipped me by..... goodbye lash you shonky piece of leftover yesterday cheese.. Hellllllooooooo Spawnses!
You do understand that you have to survive to get up to that 6" range, then roll a psychic power(Usually on 3d6 for nids, eldar) pass the psychic wards(5+ for wolves, dice off most other armies), then roll a 5 or 6 to affect a marine? It's such a waste.

Compare this to jaws of the world wolf. Which instagibs all targets in a 24" line, not just one. Gift of chaos is really only good in apoc games, because in order to have it you need a tzeentch prince with warptime and wings(Sporting 170 points here) or a sorceror(who gets fisted more reliably then he spawns things.)

If you want to instant death things you could always use your force weapon, it has better odds. Or use the slaaneshi chaos lord with ID on every swing(Fuck those nids right up)

Also if gift is done in the shooting phase and you NOMINATE a model, you MUST charge it.


In short; Lash is still better hurpadurpadoo

I keep forgetting how hilarious my old posts are.

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post #26 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 10:13 PM
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what about deep striking terminator sorcerer? gets you rather close, rather fast, oh yeah, and a 2+ save too :D

'If you fail to prepare then you'd better prepare to fail'
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post #27 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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as I recall the odds for Zogwort (same sort of dice roll)

It works out you have a 40% chance of nailing your opponent in a 1v1 dice off, those odds become much better if you get a second chance.

the rhino and a bodyguard of 4+ invul guys gets him in range by my reckoning, especially in very small games.

I'm sold on the idea tbh, especially since the games will be so small my opponent will be running at me too.




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post #28 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 11:28 PM
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also remember, because TS's have Slow and purposeful you may only move D6 but you can single shot your bolters 24" after you do so :D

and they are so epic they dont even need cover x3

4++ is going to make Pie-platers cry :D

AP3 is going to rape everything from marines to guardsmen

and power to you for sticking iwth your guns ^.^

also i think its bolt of change that makes a spawn? Gift of chaos isnt a shooting power x3 so may be used more then once by anything (including sorcs)

the only thing you may lack is some anti tank, but youll have anti infantry down square :3

as much as i love Khorne, i think Tzeentch has real potential

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post #29 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-24-10, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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also remember, because TS's have Slow and purposeful you may only move D6
2D6 til the scorcerererer dies isn't it? Then 1D6




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post #30 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-24-10, 12:30 AM
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One other thing to keep in mind when tooling up your Daemon Princes is that Warptime can be cast in both your turn and then in your opponents turn (and no you don't need MoT to do this). This is HUGE. Its one reason that I personally take warptime over lash. A non-marked warptime prince is the same cost as a lash prince, with imo much more functionality. You aren't limited to sitting back and setting up other squads. That said, I prefer a Nurgle WT DP for the toughness, and if you have the points, the damage output of a Tzeentch WT/WoC DP can't be matched. WT DPs can be fully utilized every turn of every game. You just can't say that of Lash, and that doesn't sit well with me.

I'm big on competitive lists, but I'm not sold on Lash being the be all end all.


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