2000 point Non-lash Competitive Tournament list. Feel the power! - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Default 2000 point Non-lash Competitive Tournament list. Feel the power!

So, I'm entering a tourney soon, good prizes, hope to win and all that. Now, I've never been a fan of the Lash lists, but I have decided to go hard with this, and I'm rather happy with the result. I'm looking for any comments and criticisms to help get this list fully toned of course.


HQ
Lucius the Eternal -
160

Fabius Bile -
160

Elites:
Chaos Dreadnought -
/with Multi-melta, missile launcher
/extra armour, heavy flamer
125

Chaos Dreadnought
/with Multi-melta, missile launcher
/extra armour, heavy flamer
125

Possessedx9
/with champion, MoN
294

Troops:
Thousand Sons x5
/Asp Sorcerer with bolt of change
177

Dedicated Rhino
W/extra armour, havoc launcher
70

Noise Marines x10
/Asp. Champion w/Power fist
240

Enhanced CSM x8
/Asp. Champion with Plasma Pistol
150

Lesser daemons x 10
130

Lesser daemons x10
130

Fast Attack:
Chaos Spawnx3
120

Heavy Support:
Possessed Dakka Predator
/heavy bolter sponsons, Dozer blade
/possessed, dirge caster, combi-flamer
140

=2002 points, I'm sure no one will mind the extra 2.

Now then, tactics. Ok, the two multi-melta dreads will sit back with the Predator and provide fire support, while the Assault Noise Marines, Enhanced CSM and Possessed rush up the centre to blitz the opposition. They'll be covered somewhat by the Spawn, who should tie up the enemy shooters pretty quickly. Once there, the daemons will drop, and the enemy will be in the middle of a perfect storm of stompiness. The thousand sons will be providing anti-vehicle fire support with Bolt of Change to pop enemy transports. All together, it should function quite well, and has plenty of troops to capture objectives, while not giving up too many kill points.

Anyway, It's a new list for me, but I have a good feeling about it. So, comments, criticisms, praise for not falling into the twin-lash trap? Have your say!

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Last edited by maddermax; 04-01-10 at 11:04 AM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 12:22 PM
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i hate to say it but i can't see this list doing well at all. (btw i don't like lash lists either even tho i do run them)

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Originally Posted by maddermax View Post

HQ
Lucius the Eternal - 160
lucius is... ok, but you'r army has no way of using him effectively, you have 1 rhino in the entire army and that will be taken care of very fast.

Fabius Bile - 160
this guy doesn't even have a power weapon making him almost useless in combat and the "enhanced warriors" are too random +3 points per model with a 1 in 3 chance to start killing them off for what +1 str?

Elites:
Chaos Dreadnought -
/with Multi-melta, missile launcher
/extra armour, heavy flamer
125
CSM shooty dreads suffer badly from thier crazed rule, basicaly a 1 in 3 chance to either do nothing due to having to run towards the enemy or most likely shoot your own troops in the back twice.

Chaos Dreadnought
/with Multi-melta, missile launcher
/extra armour, heavy flamer
125
as above

Possessedx9
/with champion, MoN
294
26 pts each for a completely random unit, you have no idea what will happen with these guys and without a transport (which they can't take they're just going to get shot to pieces

Troops:
Thousand Sons x5
/Asp Sorcerer with bolt of change
177
177 pts for a single str8 ap1 shot? you can get a predator with 3 LC's or 2 oblits for cheaper

Dedicated Rhino
W/extra armour, havoc launcher
70
where is this rhino going? i'm hoping the noise marines, and if so the havoc launcher isn't needed as your going to be going 12" every turn untill they are in combat.

Noise Marines x10
/Asp. Champion w/Power fist
240
i like noise marine assault squads but i'd suggest putting a doomsiren on the champ, vs meq that can really ruin thier day before you assault

Enhanced CSM x8
/Asp. Champion with Plasma Pistol
150
no transport, no way of taking out armour reliably, a champ with a plasma pistol when you could take a melta for cheaper and save yourself the pts to upgrade to the champ.

Lesser daemons x 10
130
i have no experiance using or even seen anyone using them but i personaly wouldn't use them in a tournament as they are too fragile

Lesser daemons x10
130
as above

Fast Attack:
Chaos Spawnx3
120
SNP, and no save...

Heavy Support:
Possessed Dakka Predator
/heavy bolter sponsons, Dozer blade
/possessed, dirge caster, combi-flamer
140
you can shave some points off here, having sponsons you're going to be sat still for most if not all game so no need for the dozer, dirge caster is for tank shock which if you're not moving you're not tank shocking, lastly the combi flamer i assume won't be used as you'll be sat at 36" away shooting so the flamer will get limited use

=2002 points, I'm sure no one will mind the extra 2.
in tournaments the points limit is there for a reason and in 2000 pts you can easy shave 2.

Now then, tactics. Ok, the two multi-melta dreads will sit back with the Predator and provide fire support, while the Assault Noise Marines, Enhanced CSM and Possessed rush up the centre to blitz the opposition. They'll be covered somewhat by the Spawn, who should tie up the enemy shooters pretty quickly. Once there, the daemons will drop, and the enemy will be in the middle of a perfect storm of stompiness. The thousand sons will be providing anti-vehicle fire support with Bolt of Change to pop enemy transports. All together, it should function quite well, and has plenty of troops to capture objectives, while not giving up too many kill points.

Anyway, It's a new list for me, but I have a good feeling about it. So, comments, criticisms, praise for not falling into the twin-lash trap? Have your say!
Ok onto your tactics, and from the look of it you've misjudged the units you've chosen. Firstly your dreads sat near your pred with multimeltas? a 1 in 3 chance of either running forward and not shooting or ripping apart the pred with meltas, not my kind of odds.

The possesed, and enhanced csm arn't going to blitz anywhere without transports, they'll be shot to death before getting anywhere near. The deamons will drop when the dice say so not you, they could come on turn 2 right in the middle of the board and if your opponent has and blast templates they're gonna have a field day.

You're spending a huge ammount of points on the Tsons for a single str8 shot it's just not worth it and where's the rhino going? if it's with the tsons i assume it's going to sit on an objective leaving your "assault" squads to get shot at while footslogging.

I don't mean to be so negative and believe me when i say i feel the same about lash lists, i wish there were other good builds for chaos i really do. But this list doesn't work well together your squads won't be able to get into combat fast enough.

I mean lets just compare it to a 1500 pt lash list my friend gets 9 oblits in his, all he would do is sit in his rhino's lash your squads into a big ball and fire 9 plasma cannon shots every turn moving 2 squads back every turn on average 7" or moving a suad closer then assaulting with 2 princes, thats 10 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 2's with no save.

my other friends SM army would just use his vindi's to rain str 10 pie plates into your squads anything thats left gets assaulted by TH/SS termies with kantor in a LR, thats 20 attacks at str 8 no saves.

those are both 1500 pt lists and i would put money on them winning over your 2000 pts list.

I'm not writing all this crap to have a go bud i'm really not, i want any chaos player to do well in a tournament esp if you say there's prizes, you want to take a force thats got a good chance of winning, this just isn't it.

Last edited by OpTi; 04-01-10 at 01:03 PM.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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So, do you think Huron Blackheart could be a better option for the HQ then? I haven't much experience with him, what do other people thing?

And though the spawn don't have a save, their extra toughness and wounds should be fine, maybe if I took an extra unit of them they might do better?

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Last edited by maddermax; 04-01-10 at 12:41 PM.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 12:40 PM
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lol madder, don't even get me started

actualy there's someone who uses huron in our local and when i got later i might just challenge him with my prince and just to prove how bad he is i won't even attack and still kill him.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 01:24 PM
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You should take

Lash DP, PMs and Oblits. Man, always such people thinking they can field something else in a chaos tourny army.

Last edited by b.anthracis; 04-01-10 at 04:51 PM.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Don't quite know what you're getting at old chap, but I'm really needing advice on this, so any one else have some good pointers?

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 05:46 PM
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CSM only have one effective tourny list, sadly, which is a Lash Prince, Plague Marines, and lots and lots of Oblits (max 9). Named HQs are a waste of money and points. (Especially FB). I personally have nothing against dreadnoughts, but they can be risky in a tourny. Same with possessed.

In summary, get at least a DP in there, it does not need to be lash, some PM, and a few oblits. After that do whatever the fuck you want

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 06:28 PM
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I'll try to give you my point of view in this list. I'm with you about not using lash but damn, they are really good things but i think there are other options in the army that can have a chance but what froghtor said it's true, that list wins (or has high numbers to win) tourneys.

That this list is really bad in a tournament, you don't have enough sinergy in your squads to make them win battles, opti has done a good job with his comments so i won't repeat with that and just put the list and my personal recommendation to use them. Don't forget to give him some "Rep" points, he made a good job and a lot of time to write and help you.

I'll try to give you an idea of what i have on mind:


Lucius The Eternal --> 160 points

He goes with his Slaaneshi friends in the rhino and thx to the dual siren, you can kill a lot of people like opti has said before and finish the rest in close combat.

Slaaneshi Lord with Daemonic Weapon, Bike, Combi-Melta --> 180 points

Damn, he's a killing machine. He can assault people in Turn 2 (or Turn 1 if they enemy move forward you) and kill them thx to the special rule of his weapon (4 + 1D6 Instant Death attacks ), a small bike squad should help him deal with the problem.


9 Noise Marines (Paladin with Siren and Power Weapon) --> 225 points
Transport: Rhino --> 35 points

I'm not sure about the price of Siren, i put it as it values as 15, if it's wrong, plz let me know

10 Chaos Space Marines (Paladin with Power Fist, Icon of Khorne, 2 meltaguns) --> 240 points
Transport: Rhino --> 35 points

10 Chaos Space Marines (Paladin with Power Fist, Icon of Khorne, 2 meltaguns) --> 240 points
Transport: Rhino --> 35 points

These 2 units of Chaos Marines are "Khorne" but they represent the brutality in your army. Good pounch, good stats and with anti-tank firepower, something that Berserkers don't have. I used them against MEQs and they work REALLY well.

7 Plague Marines --> 147 points

7 Plague Marines --> 147 points

These 2 units are really cool defending objectives meanwhile the rest of the army destroy the enemy army and capture the other objectives with your other troop choices. They don't need upgrades, they are just for holding objectives and survive, let the rest of the army to make their job.


5 Chaos Bike Squad (Paladin with Power Fist, 2 with Meltaguns, Icon of Khorne) --> 255 points

They go with the Slaaneshi Lord as "bodyguard". I know this is anti-fluff (Slaanesh-Khorne) and i'm a defender of fluff but you are in a tournament and nobody will respect it so you're "justified" (although i don't like it). The power fist and Icon of Khorne give you some good attacks to "finish" what the lord started with I6
Just be careful with them cause they are only 6 miniatures and they are "fire-magnet" (sorry if it isn't the right expression, i'm not english speaker )
People understimated them but bikes are something really scary and Chaos Space Bikes are the second most feared (behind Nob Bikers).



2 Obliterators OR 1 Defiler with 2 extra close combat weapons --> 150 points

1 Defiler with you a Leman Russ template and a killing machine in Close Combat but the Obliterators give you more game, you decide.

2 Obliterators --> 150 points

This unit is something basic just cause of their "sinergy" with the army. They give you the long-range firepower you really need and they can deepstrike anywhere in the map safely AND where you need them thx to the icons.


Total: 1999 points

KPs: 13 (Just take care in Annihilation games and you'll be fine )
Scoring: 5


You have 3 Rhinos and 1 Bike Squad to get the fight to the enemy (and 1 Defiler if you decide to include them) with enough firepower and combatpower to deal with the enemy and crush him. Just stay focus, sleep well and

Hope this helps you.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-10, 09:13 PM
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Huhthis is either a competitive list based on fluffor(and if Im out of line and wrong, I truly am sorry) an April Fools joke.

On the other hand, if youve had a lot of success wit this list, then dont change it.

Lucius is not a terrible choice, though DPs, Kharn, etc. are picked over him time and time again. Since you seem to have Tzeentch/Slaanesh lean, Id drop Bile for a Tzeentchian Sorc.

If you insist on keeping the Dreads, Id recommend two CCWs and a heavy flamer or a HB. CCW Dreads play into a Khornate theme as theyre crazy and tend toward rushing at things.

Ive no experience with Possessed, if youve had success with them, have at it, other wise Id go with one or two units of Chosen or even termicide. I think for the points you have on the Possessed you can actually take 3 termicide squads.

Bulk up your TSons, drop the Enhanced Marines and Lesser Daemons, and take more NMs. give your existing NM squads champ a Doom Siren.

For your Heavies, Id drop the Spawn, and use at least one Oblit squad (3 in the unit) and two dakka Preds with HB sponsons, and maybe Extra Armor.

Well, thats what I would run. Tell us how you do.

good hunting.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-02-10, 01:20 AM
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Constatine that list of your's looks absolutely golden!

Made me go when I read it. Would you mind if I borrowed the list to use at some point? Have some rep for not only an awesome list, but some very detailed comments

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