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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-15, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Default Crimson Slaughter (with Daemon allies) 1850 pts

I'm coming back into the game soon, for a tournament (by the end of June). I don't hope to win it, of course. I just want to get plunged back into the game and its rules in a serious way before setting up a more fun environment with friends ;)

What do you think about the following list ?

The Serrated Flame (Crimson Slaughter allied with Chaos Daemons) : 1850 points

HQ
  • Chaos Lord (120pts) : Prophet of the Voices, Gift of Mutation, Mark of Slaanesh
  • [Daemon Allies] Keeper of Secrets (260pts) : Psyker (Mastery Level 3), 2* Greater Reward
Troops
  • Possessed (200pts) : 4 Possessed (Mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess) + Aspiring Champion (Mark of Slaanesh, 2* Gift of Mutation)
  • Chaos Cultists (61pts) : 9* Cultist (4* Autoguns, Heavy stubber) + Aspiring Champion (Shotgun)
  • Chaos Space Marines (193pts) : 5* Space Marine (Plasma gun, Icon of Vengeance) + Aspiring Champion (Combi-plasma, Melta bomb) + Rhino (Extra armour, Dirge caster)
  • [Daemon Allies] Daemonettes of Slaanesh (90pts) : 10* Daemonette
Elites
  • Chaos Terminators (124pts) : 2* Terminator (Combi-melta, Combi-plasma, Power axe, Chainfist) + Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta, Power Axe)
Fast Attack
  • Warp Talons (200pts) : 4* Warp Talon (Mark of Nurgle) + Aspiring Champion (Mark of Nurgle, 2* Gift of Mutation)
  • [Daemon Allies] Tzeentch Screamers (75pts) : 3* Screamer
Heavy Support
  • Chaos Land Raider (247pts) : Havoc launcher, Dirge caster
  • Havocs (155pts) : 4* Havoc (2* Missile launchers, 2* Flakk missiles, Autocannon, Lascannon) + Aspiring Champion
  • [Daemon Allies] Skull Cannon (125pts)
Tactics in a nutshell :

- I have bet upon variety, trying to have at least one unit for every situation (close combat, anti-vehicle, anti-flyers, psychic powers, blasts, ...) and battlefield role at hand, as far as a link (even weak) with each of the Chaos Gods.

- The overall strategy obviously consists in bringing my command squad (Lord and Possessed deployed inside the Land Raider) upon the foe (inside its deployment area if it does not move forward). Telepathy powers of the Greater Daemon, smoke launchers of the Rhino, as far as (likely) skirmishing of the Screamers must support the advance of the Land Raider.

- Skull cannon and dirge casters are there to support assaults (by preventing initiative loss due to difficult ground and overwatch).

- Warp Talons will probably follow-up (not in Deep Strike, except maybe against Orks or Necrons) the move, covering the back lines, countering or supporting charges, waiting for the possible moment when they get into assault range of specific targets (like command squands or heavy weapons).

- Havocs, Land Raider and Terminators (in Deep Strike for the latter) will principally take care of armoured targets. The Skull Cannon will try to weaken up large and/or behind cover units (moving forward each turn as it also has a good close combat potential).

- Daemonettes will enter play by Deep Strike, in order to give support where it is needed at the moment they appear.

- Cultists are just there to camp upon objectives. The Space Marines unit will be deployed into the Rhino and, therefore, adapt itself to the situation (running for objective, giving fire support to assault units, targeting a vehicle, ...).

- While crossing up the battlefield (especially for the first turn), this army will offer three big targets to the opponent : Skull Cannon, Land Raider and Greater Daemon (its Greater Reward should make it more resilient).

- Strategically speaking, the Warlord Trait should come from the Crimson Slaughter table (if not, from the Strategic one of the rulebook). The whole army has "Fear" and only Cultists, Havocs, Terminators and Warp Talons (not a real choice for the latter, unfortunately) are not "Fearless". Fear (and its absence) is not a major tactical feature, but some of the Telepathy psychic powers play upon it too.

Do you think that such reflections and this army list still have major flaws ?

Every comment/advise is welcome, as W40K is, for me, pure theory since the second edition (and the previous century :D)

Last edited by alt-f4; 05-22-15 at 11:32 PM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-15, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alt-f4 View Post
Chaos Terminators (144pts) : 2* Terminator (Reaper autocannon, Combi-plasma, Power axe, Chainfist) + Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta, Power Axe)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Reaper A/C can only be taken in squads of 5 or more.

Other than that, could be a fun list.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-15, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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You are definitely ... right (I had started the list with 5, then reduced their number gradually and forgot about that).

Thanks ! I have corrected it above, and that gave me the 20 points for the second Greater Reward of the Greater Daemon.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-15, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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After some more reading and thinking, I have removed the 2 Gifts of Mutation from the Warp Talons to give the Slaughterer's Horns to the Chaos Lord and add one cultist with autogun.

I'll keep it updated into the army showcase (with pictures, background and reports) ... this tool is a definite asset for the community !
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-29-15, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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As promised, a first feedback about the performances of this army list.
I have played 3 games, against Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Grey Knights, for ... 3 defeats (13-7, 11-9 and 11-9). Globally speaking, I had enough mobility and diversity to fulfill objectives, but didn't focus enough upon destroying enemy units (and lost all on the KP average).
  • First opponent : an Ultramarine armoured force (2 Vindicators, 2 or 3 Razorbacks, Storm Talon, Ironclad Dreadnought and 2 squads of scouts in Speeder) lead by Tigurius within a Terminators squad. I managed the battle quite well (getting rid of the Vindicators, Storm Talon and 1 Razorback, half of the disembarked Marines and Scouts) until the Stormraven landed and the Dreadnought, Tigurius and the Terminators (directly becoming Invisible) disembarked. I have lost the Keeper of Secrets, Landraider, Skull Cannon, Space Marines and Cultists in that turn. I have made three major mistakes (for my first game since 20 years), though : I forgot to move the Screamers after the first turn (I had moved them behind a building at first turn), I forgot to try and make my Terminators and Daemonettes coming from reserves in Deep Strike (I realized it while putting my models back into the box) and I choosed to aim at the Storm Talon (making it crash) instead of the Storm Raven (my dice results would have made it crash, alongside with all the models within). I didn't deserve better results with such oblivious behaviour. A 13/7 defeat was not a so bad result in those circumstances.
  • Second match : a Blood Angels army (3 assault squads in Drop Pods, Sanguinary Guard lead by Sanguinary Priest and Chaplain, 3 Razorbacks, 1 Vindicator and an Errant Imperial Knight). I just ignored the Imperial Knight, because I thought I would have wasted too much firepower to try and bring it down. Apart from that, the Warp Talons and Keeper of Secrets managed to wipe out the Sanguinary Guard and Priest. I have just made a bad choice when deepstriking the Daemonettes (at a place for an unuseful assault instead of capping for one objective which would have made me win the objectives battle). I've lost the Landraider on the last turn due to an unexpected melta bomb, and the game (11/9) on the Kill Points averages.
  • Last encounter : the Grey Knights (Librarian in Terminator armour with Aegis and Liber Daemonica, 20 Terminators including 3 Justicars, Purgators, Interceptors and Nemesis Dreadknight). Due to the psychic levels (10 in total against my 3 ones), Force weapons and anti-Daemon weapons and abilities, I expected to be soon reduced to a few units. But it has not been the case : it probably has been my best battle of the 3 ones, the most "impressive" move being the cultists moving forward to protect the Keeper of Secrets from being charged by the Librarian and Terminators, and even killing one Terminator with an autopistol. I even managed to cast some Psychic Powers, but the Perils of the Warp ended up killing the Keeper of Secrets (just after having killed the Dreadknight). After having got rid of almost all squads, my remaining forces (Skull Cannon included) assaulted the Librarian and what was left of his squad, but didn't manage to kill him. I had lost my Warlord upon Instant Death from a Hammer, and lost the game (11/9) on Kill Points averages again.
Some debriefing considerations :
  • The Keeper of Secrets is just awesome. Two greater rewards make it quite resilient. 6 S6 PA2 attacks with WS9 and I10 allows it to wipe out any squad with ease. It's not a cheap model (260 pts), but it has always killed more than its cost. No range weapon, unfortunately, but the Telepathy Primaris is a real threat for any enmy squad.
  • The Chaos Lord has not been as effective as I expected. Prophet of the Voices is a good ability, but relies upon the random power of the Possessed each turn. Slaughterer's Horns is not so great as it seems, though : I've had a case when the unit charges Space Marines. My Warlord (the only model with PA3 weapon) issues a challenge and therefore fights against the Sergeant, killing him with Hammer of Wrath. No sweeping advance, no additional wounds (because no use of his 5 S5 PA3 attacks upon charge) transferred to the rest of the squad that only has to deal with the PA- attacks of the Possessed. Mark of Slaanesh and Icon of Excess are not cheap, but make such unit quite resilient (except against Instant Death, to the misfortune of my Warlord).
  • The Space Marines did their supporting and objective taking job quite well. 2/3 times, the one with the Icon of Vengeance was the last one left (removing the closest ones first) and managed to survive (and attract shooting and assaults, throwing one grenade in the meantime) for more than 1 turn. Maybe I've been somehow lucky, but I therfore still prefer a 6 men squad with IoV instead of a 8 men one without (even if I'll try to field up a 8 men one with IoV next time).
  • The Cultists have not been as present as I expected (unable to find out any target in range most of the time, due to the several vehicles of my opponents), except for the time when they have killed a Grey Knight Terminator (just for that, it has been worth playing them ).
  • Every of my opponents had lots of MEQs, so the Warp Talons have easily been able to fight against units they are designed for. High cost, but killing for about their points upon every game. I have, most of the time, been able to make them charge units in range of a Dirge Caster and the Mark of Nurgle make them resilient against units which shoot or fight against them (knowing that heavy weapons which would require daemonic save increasable to 4++ with the Mark of Tzeentch always targeted armoured or biggest things than Warp Talons). I have my (personal and temporary) answer to the choice between Mark of Nurgle and Mark of Tzeentch : I'll always take the first one.
  • The Landraider only survived 1/3 games, but stayed up at least 2 turns (killed at third and last one) during the other ones. Quite efficient against armoured targets, and therefore never using the Havoc launcher ... maybe I'll put it on the Rhino next time (which had, in some occasions, good targets in range, but just a combi-bolter to shoot with).
  • The Termicide has not been one : I've lost only one Terminator during the 2 battles they have been in while they have wiped-out 2 infantry units and one vehicle, and stood up against the Grey Knights Librarian and Terminators. A great squad which would deserve to be larger (with an auto-cannon).
  • The Havocs have been quite decent, flakk missiles have only had one chance to aim a flyer, but did it well, as it ended up crashing (they should have targeted the other one, though).
  • The Daemonettes have had no occasion to really show up : I forgot them on the first battle, they've been wiped out before being able to fight on the second, and been destroyed by a Deep Strike mishap on the third one. The real disappointment, but I need at least on Daemon Troop for the Daemonic Allies, so I'll try them up again in the future.
  • Screamers are amazing and extremely resilient with Jink, Daemon of Tzeentch (reroll results of "1" on saving throw), T4 and W2. Their on-the-fly 1D3 S4 PA- attack during Turbo-Boost is useful in almost every case (even upon Invisible units, for instance). I think I'll put 6 upon the table soon.
  • And, last but not least, the weirdo, aka the Skull Cannon. Only one shot per turn, but it is S8 large blast (with BS5, meaning it touches most of the time). Not only it has worried all my opponents (who made it a target they could not ignore, mainly because they didn't know anything about it), but it also managed to reduce infantry units before the charge and remove some vehicle HP (preventing them to move or fire, and even destroying them after they had been hit by the Landraider or the Havocs earlier in my shooting phase). It killed one Grey Knight Terminator with his D6 S7 Hammer of Wrath charge too (but stuck into Melee after that, with no possibility to act anymore).
  • The gifts of mutation have mainly been useless (nothing, advantages that the model already has from type or mark), ... close to a real waste, actually.
So, 3 interesting games which I have learned a lot from for 3 defeats, but one where I have made too big mistakes and the two others really close to draws. Not a so bad result for a return in tournament (even not a hard one) ;)

The Serrated Flame : a First Heretics army

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Last edited by alt-f4; 06-29-15 at 12:46 PM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-29-15, 04:23 PM
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Cool, man! the first game is just the hard way to take experience back after some years of rast

The other games, I honestly expected far worse, comparing the lists! Good job!

About the list i can see some things you can trim out: ALL the Boon of mutations. they are crap, as you have seen. Also, extra armour is too situational for its cost. Also, mixing missile launchers, autocannons and lascannons is not good. i'd drop a lascannon and and add an autocannon.
this would give you 75 points to beef up daemonettes or screamers or to add an obliterator of nurgle...

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-29-15, 06:59 PM
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You know... you already have a land raider and terminators. You could increase the size of the unit, give those terminators chain fists and the mark of khorne and take out imperial knights

Warp talons are considered weak but with a land raider advancing you could bunch them up beside it to keep them out of line of sight.

I enjoyed reading your battle reports, I love hearing how games went!

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-29-15, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your comments and suggestions ;)

Thinking about them, I've tried up to set up something : a 2000pts Chaos Daemons army with Crimson Slaughter allies (fluffy speaking, it goes one step further, with the Word Bearers following up the Daemons agenda and giving them support, the Dark Apostle, who was initially intended to be a Possessed, ending up as Daemon Prince). Warp Storm table doesn't fit well with marked Space Marines, but I wanted to design the most Daemonic Word Bearers Ost I could currently imagine. It's not only risky for the enemies, but for me too ... for truly hectic battles under the waves of the Immaterium !

Here is the list :

HQ
  • Keeper of Secrets (260pts) : Psyker (Mastery Level 3), 2* Greater Reward
  • [Crimson Slaughter allies] Daemon Prince (270pts) : Wings, Power Armour, Daemon of Tzeentch, Psyker (Mastery Level 2)
Troops
  • Daemonettes of Slaanesh (90pts) : 10* Daemonette
  • Plague Bearers of Nurgle (90pts) : 10* Plague Bearer
  • [Crimson Slaughter allies] Possessed (145pts) : 4 Possessed (Mark of Slaanesh) + Aspiring Champion (Mark of Slaanesh)
Elites
  • [Crimson Slaughter allies] Chaos Terminators (506pts) : 4* Terminator (2* Combi-melta, Combi-plasma, Reaper Autocannon, 2* Power axe, Power fist, Power maul, Mark of Khorne) + Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta, Chainfist, Mark of Khorne) + Landraider (Dirge caster, Destroyer blades, Daemonic possession). These are supposed to be deployed separately (empty Landraider and deep-striking Terminators).
Fast Attack
  • Tzeentch Screamers (150pts) : 6* Screamer
  • [Crimson Slaughter allies] Warp Talons (180pts) : 4* Warp Talon (Mark of Nurgle) + Aspiring Champion (Mark of Nurgle)
Heavy Support
  • [Crimson Slaughter allies] Havocs (183pts) : 5* Havoc (2* Missile launchers, 2* Flakk missiles, 2* Autocannon, Icon of Vengeance) + Aspiring Champion
  • [Daemon Allies] Skull Cannon (125pts)
What do you think about it ?

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-30-15, 08:16 AM
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I'd like to read a couple of reports of the list, 'cause I can't see it performing well, but with the other list you surprised me!
About the landraider...why not transporting terminators in melee? if its a weapon platform you are looking for, then a trilas predator costs 80 pts less and has more dakka! (not AV14, shure, but still...)

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-30-15, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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I don't know when I could test it yet. It's also just a first draft ... I had thought several days about the former list before posting it.

The latter list is made from the idea of selecting the most daemonic Space Marines as possible ("naturally daemonic", i.e. without daemon engines or Obliterators/Mutilators cults of the Dark Mechanicus).

So, with all the marks, the daemonic possession of the Landraider (and the Destroyer blades to make it charge in a daemonic way) and the Icon of Vengeance for the Havocs (which ran away 2/3 times in those above games).

Now, to get it back to 1850, it's possible to remove the mark of Khorne from the Terminators, the Daemonic possession and the Destoyer blades from the Landraider, 3 Screamers and the Icon of Vengeance from the Havocs (as far as its bearer).

Comparing the two lists now, I have lost :

- My Possessed Chaos Lord, and the Icon of Excess from the Possessed squad (these have not been decisive in any game, though, because their lack of PA get them stuck soon),
- The Space Marines unit and the Rhino (good for support, but not far much more ... except maybe for the Dirge caster),
- The cultists (not really useful),
- A bunch of "wasted" points (things not useful or never used, like Gifts of mutation, Lascannon, Havoc launcher, ...),
- Two units of the total ones (13 vs 11).

And I gain :

- A more efficient and resilient CSM HQ giving me more Psychic abilities and powers (maybe going towards Daemonology, with a bunch of Bloodletters, Heralds and Screamers at hand to make some additional units come up the board), and fulfilling the lack of flying units,
- The Warp storm effects (random events, but usually impacting my opponent more than me),
- More Terminators (and heavier firepower with the Reaper autocannon, as far as a second Chainfist instead of the Power glove), being already happy with what 3 of them have shown.

The Havocs (except for the Lascannon/Autocannon switch), Screamers, Skull Cannon, Warp Talons, Daemonettes and Keeper of Secrets being unchanged, this second list seems "harder" to me (and, therefore, potentially "better performing").

But I'll keep in touch after I have the chance to test it in game ;)

The Serrated Flame : a First Heretics army

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