Chaos Helbrutes in List. Is this Legal? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-17-15, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Default Chaos Helbrutes in List. Is this Legal?

Good afternoon, I just had a quick question and am hoping someone can verify if this is legal.

I am making a Chaos Space Marine list that includes one elite choice (Chaos Terminators) and the Helbrute formation Mayhem Pack (contains three separate Helbrutes). The question I have is do the three separate helbrutes count towards my FOC chart? if so I would have 4 Elites and the list would not be legal. It does say however that formations are a separate detachment in the dataslate; so I was leaning towards they do not. Thanks.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-17-15, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Triarch View Post
Good afternoon, I just had a quick question and am hoping someone can verify if this is legal.

I am making a Chaos Space Marine list that includes one elite choice (Chaos Terminators) and the Helbrute formation Mayhem Pack (contains three separate Helbrutes). The question I have is do the three separate helbrutes count towards my FOC chart? if so I would have 4 Elites and the list would not be legal. It does say however that formations are a separate detachment in the dataslate; so I was leaning towards they do not. Thanks.
Each formation counts as a seprate Detachment. So they do not influence the FOC.. A combied Arms Detachment.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-17-15, 10:13 PM
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What Uveron said: The Helbrutes are in their own Formation, the Mayhem Pack, not in your limited Elites slots in the Combined Arms Detachment. They do not count as Elites choices at all.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-18-15, 06:23 PM
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So any/all formations don't count towards the FOC?
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-18-15, 07:00 PM
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So any/all formations don't count towards the FOC?
Yep... unless your necrons, then they have a wierd new fancy ones...
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-18-15, 10:53 PM
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I use the Helcult formation in most of my games, the 2 cultist squads and helbrute. Now for troops I take an additional cultist squad. Does that mean my list wasn't legal? I'd only have the 1 troop plus the formation.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-19-15, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantsRuin View Post
I use the Helcult formation in most of my games, the 2 cultist squads and helbrute. Now for troops I take an additional cultist squad. Does that mean my list wasn't legal? I'd only have the 1 troop plus the formation.
Yep, unfortunately. I mean, you obviously weren't doing it deliberately to defraud your opponents with a gamed-for-advantage list, so I wouldn't hold it against, but...

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-19-15, 12:53 AM
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Also remember those Cultists from your Helbrute Formation DON'T get 'Objective secured'
HOWEVER the good news is that Typhus Plague Zombies (or Necrosius ones) can be the Cultists that follow your Helbrute around as Helcult, because they both allow any Cultists in the ARMY to be Zombies, not just their own detachment. So you can have Feel No Pain cultists as his bodyguard. So RAW (though not RAI I think) says they could take their FNP to stay alive, as it says "no saves allowed" and the FNP rules says you can take the test even when "No saves are allowed" as it is not a save. That is unless it is instant death or D weapons.

PS if you want to see an odd list that is legal check

https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=159770

14 Helbrutes (1 murder and 3 mayhem packs) and 2 Maulerfiends + a Voidshield and Aegis.

Last edited by mayegelt; 03-19-15 at 12:58 AM.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-15, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantsRuin View Post
I use the Helcult formation in most of my games, the 2 cultist squads and helbrute. Now for troops I take an additional cultist squad. Does that mean my list wasn't legal? I'd only have the 1 troop plus the formation.
This could be legal using an allied detachment! In this case, the warlord must be from your primary detachment. It would look like this:

# Primary Helcult
## Elite
Helbrute - 100

## Troop
10 Cultists: champion(warlord) - 50
10 Cultists - 50

# Allied Chaos Marines
## HQ
Sorcerer - 60

## Troop
10 Cultists - 50

So, your list would of only been illegal if it has more that 2 of any elite, fast attack or heavy support. For bonus super fun points you could do:

# Primary Helfist Murderpack
## Elite
5 Helbrute: champion(warlord) w/ thunder hammer, power fist - 505

# Allied Chaos Marines
## HQ
Sorcerer - 60

## Troop
10 Cultists - 50

Gotta be some kind of hilarious warlord trait you can get for your character Helbrute.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-15, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
Yep, unfortunately. I mean, you obviously weren't doing it deliberately to defraud your opponents with a gamed-for-advantage list, so I wouldn't hold it against, but...
Unbound explcitly calls this out as legal.



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