Awesome: 60 pts for an objective secured scouting meltagun w/4 ablative wounds i basically put a thorn in my opponent flank by denying a 12" area to one landraider and forcing him to deal with those two squads hidden in cover in order to avoid conceding linebreaker. 120 pts blocked movement of 400+pts and engaged melee and shooting for 3-4 turns vs another 200 pts of stuff, killing even a small squad of marines. Vets are meant to stay in 5 man units, with some nasty ability to boot. obviously they need a huge support from massed infantry or overwhelming firepower, otherwise are just moot. But 3 squads of 5 fuckers can hold a lot of objectives and score lots of points if left undisturbed. the melta is just a plus, to somewhat deal with armour. If i am ever going to run the Iron fisted tyrant Arch heretic i'd be going Grenadiers,scout, plasmagun squads (80 pts) thats a lot of AP 3 at a fair range and some AP 2 pewpew. In cover, two units of those can ruin any marines horde day.

Yeah, lascannons...only good vs AV12, i think. Even the rapier laser battery are not that good, i tried those also, and 36" range really hurts a lot. Wathever, i'm putting more melta in the bunch.

Eh Lascannons can threaten all forms of Armour from turn 1, melta takes a few turns to get the perfect shot. But yep first thing the Lascannons should be removing the AV 11 to 13 stuff from the table before focusing on the AV 14 (and presuming there is only the one AV 14 unit on the table, melta should be making a bee-line for it anyway)

changed things a bit, more in the shape of my first "horde" feeling: basically was 2 blobs of 20 renegades with flamers meltabombs and sigil, 4 units of 10 renegades with plasmaguns, 2 wyvern, 2 medusa (breacher shells) and a stray missile launcher on the command squad, plus 2 units of mercenaries (the deepstriking elite unit) with 2 meltaguns each. i removed chimeras since they cost as much as a wyvern, 'nuff said...

With this half horde / artillery mash up i curb stomped a csm list. Said list was without landraiders. I can see that my problem are truly AV 14 things... next game i'll be vs orks (probably a stompa is to expected!!)