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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-29-14, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Default Renegade 2k

The lost and the damned finally return! I've had the majority of these models since the old eye of terror book. Now I can finally put them all on the field again. It's even all got objective secured!

I'm going for a take all comers list. The focus is primarily on the feel of the army, with competitiveness coming a close second. Fluff would be the last of my concerns.

The Idea is to walk a giant mass of bodies forward turn 1, hopefully accomplishing a horde feeling. The ferocious, in your face chaos part really starts to dial up on turn two when all or most the reserves come in.

Arch-demagogue: revolutionary, tzeench, carapace armor, power axe, melta bombs - 50
Fearless anchor to the 20 man infantry unit. Tzeench was taken for the spawn but BS2 snap shots will be fun.

Command Squad: lascannon, command vox - 70
Chimera: multi-laser, heavy bolter, militia - 65
Sits by the 2 10 man infantry units, (hopefully) fixing their leadership.

20 Infantry Command I: 2 autocannons, 4 flamers, lasguns, sub-flak armor, militia, demagogue w/ melta bombs - 125
Moves forward behind assault units.

10 Infantry I: autocannon, flamer, sigil, lasguns, militia - 60
10 Infantry I: autocannon, flamer, sigil, lasguns, militia - 60
Objective campers. General nuisances.

30 Mutants: champion w/ power axe, melta bombs, khorne - 125
Retinue for the chaos lord. Arch-demagogue will switch to this unit in the event the lord books it with the spawn.

3 Renegade Spawn - 55
3 Renegade Spawn - 55
3 Renegade Spawn - 55
Mostly for counter assault. Is great for maelstrom with objective secured.

3 Sentinels: multi-lasers - 60
Nuisances.

Wyvren - 55

Chaos Lord: khorne, juggernaught, axe of fury, sigil, melta bombs - 180
Will get to re-roll wounds from the mutant's demagogue. Can also re-roll hits if the Arch-demagogue joins the unit.

3 Chaos Terminators: combi-meltas, power axes, chain fist - 124
Deep strikes in enemy lines to cause a ruckus and draw fire.

5 Chaos Marines: melta gun, bolters, bolt pistols, ccws, melta bombs - 98
Rhino. dirge caster - 40
Cheapest I could make a utility knife CSM unit.

Hell Blade: helstorm autocannons - 115

Sicaran Battle Tank: heavy bolter sponsons - 155
The obvious anti-tank target for my opponent. Hides behind cover until the Soul Grinder arrives.

Tzeench Herald: exalted reward, level 2 - 100
11 Horrors - 99
Mans the comms-relay summoning daemons.

Soul Grinder: nurgle, phlegm - 180
Deep strikes in for a nice pie plate. Once down, it should take the heat off my Sicaran.

Aegis: comms relay - 70
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-30-14, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Played a game vs Dark Eldar, Blood Angels and IG. Dark eldar ran 2 formations: a unit of 6 talos with haywire blasters and chainflails, and the unit with a talos, chronos, and haemonculus. The guard player took dreadnaught w/ lightning claw and harpoon, death company w/ recclusiarch, infantry platoons, and vets in a valkyrie.

I poured everything I had into the MCs. Shooting and assault. But... they rolled through my entire army. I killed 5/8 of them but both units were still functional. I did however stay in the game because we were playing maelstrom and I was wracking up a ton of points with good board presence. The army plays a bit like an MSU list. However that 6 talos formation gets a VP for every non-vehicle unit it kills, wtf! The score ended up in a loss for me, 13 - 18 with the formation scoring 6 VPs by itself through that rule.

So, with that experience I've changed up the list to strengthen up the anti-armor and assault a bit.

Arch-demagogue: revolutionary, khorne, carapace armor, power fist, melta bombs - 50
I'm loving this configuration. It's so simple and straightforward. Fearless plus re-roll hits and wounds in the first round of combat. This guy is now leading the mutant unit. Which lets the Chaos Lord take better advantage of his speed by joining a full unit of spawn.

Command Squad: lascannon, flamer, command vox - 75
Chimera: multi-laser, heavy bolter, militia - 65
Command vox is amazing for keeping the infantry units around after the enemy's shooting.

10 Infantry Command I: autocannon, 2 flamers, lasguns, militia - 60
10 Infantry I: autocannon, 2 flamers, lasguns, militia - 60
10 Infantry I: autocannon, 2 flamers, lasguns, militia - 60
Camps objectives, protecting the Chimera and artillery. The 20 man unit in the previous list wasn't doing me any favors. It was trying to be an imperial guard unit without orders or divination to back it up. Hatred is put to much better use on the mutants.

30 Mutants: champion w/ power axe, melta bombs - 110
Tarpit unit with the not-so-buried power axe and power fist.

Wyvren - 55

Earthshaker Battery - 55
I felt a distinct lack of ap3, especially at high str. Hopefully this will help fix that.

Chaos Lord: khorne, juggernaught, axe of fury, sigil, melta bombs - 180

3 Chaos Terminators: combi-meltas, power axes, chain fist - 124

5 Chaos Marines: nurgle, melta gun, bolt pistols, ccws, veterans, champion w/ melta bombs - 110
Rhino: dirge caster - 40

5 Chaos Marines: nurgle, melta gun, bolt pistols, ccws, veterans, champion w/ melta bombs - 110
Rhino: dirge caster - 40
Went up to a second combined arms detachment so I could take a full unit of spawn for a second fast attack. More much needed melta.

Hell Blade - 100
Rending just isn't worth the loss of 2 shots to me.

5 Spawn - 150

Sicaran Battle Tank - 135
I found I never wanted to shoot at infantry with this tank, I have plenty of anti-infantry elsewhere. Dropped the heavy bolter sponsons.

Tzeench Herald: level 2 - 70
11 Horrors - 99
The portal glyph was a bit gimmicky for this list. An interesting way to generate warp charge but ehh. I think I've found more impactful ways to spend 30 points.

Soul Grinder: nurgle, phlegm - 180

Aegis: comms relay - 70



Another list I'm considering is one with some points shaved off the troops to get another Hell Blade. Overall I don't mind the loss of bs3 on the infantry because the second Hell Blade gives way more autocannon hits. It will also add a needed buff to my AA. I played against a single valkyrie and didn't have a real chance of shooting it down. Kind of bummed about the downgrade of the command squad from a lascannon to a autocannon but it makes the infantry more cohesive. The last thing that was cut was T5 and ld10 on the CSM. I'll let play testing show if they're really necessary.

Arch-demagogue: revolutionary, khorne, carapace armor, power fist, melta bombs - 50
Command Squad: autocannon, flamer, command vox - 65
Chimera: multi-laser, heavy bolter, militia - 65

10 Infantry Command I: autocannon, flamer, lasguns - 45
10 Infantry I: autocannon, flamer, lasguns - 45
10 Infantry I: autocannon, flamer, lasguns - 45

29 Mutants: champion w/ power axe, melta bombs - 107

Wyvren - 55

Earthshaker Battery - 55

Chaos Lord: khorne, juggernaught, axe of fury, sigil, melta bombs - 180

3 Chaos Terminators: combi-meltas, power axes, chain fist - 124

5 Chaos Marines: melta gun, bolt pistols, ccws, champion w/ melta bombs - 90
Rhino: dirge caster - 40

5 Chaos Marines: melta gun, bolt pistols, ccws, champion w/ melta bombs - 90
Rhino: dirge caster - 40

5 Spawn - 150

Hell Blade - 100
Hell Blade - 100

Sicaran Battle Tank - 135

Tzeench Herald: level 2 - 70
11 Horrors - 99

Soul Grinder: nurgle, phlegm - 180

Aegis: comms relay - 70

Last edited by NathanJD; 11-30-14 at 10:39 PM.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-04-14, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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Did a bit of work on the list. I even figured out a 1k list (below without CSM or fortification). Even at 1k it brings a wall of 30 mutants flanked by av13 walkers. The added Blood Slaughterer certainly fills my ap3 void while upping my table presence. The earthshaker battery was just too risky for an army that wants to be up in the opponent's lines.

Arch-demagogue: revolutionary, khorne, carapace armor, power fist, melta bombs - 67
Leader of the mutants. Decliner of challenges.

Command Squad: lascannon, command vox - 53
Chimera: multi-laser, heavy bolter, militia - 65
Anchor to the infantry force.

10 Infantry Command I: autocannon, 2 flamers, lasguns - 50
10 Infantry I: autocannon, 2 flamers, lasguns - 50
10 Infantry I: autocannon, 2 flamers, lasguns - 50
For objectives and bubble wrapping. Happy to move and snap fire their autocannons.

30 Mutants: champion w/ melta bombs - 95
Dropped the power axe here because I realized I needed a sacrificial character for challenges when the chaos lord is not with this unit.

Blood Slaughterer: harpoon - 135
I hope this wrecking ball will do a good job of protecting my mutants.

Wyvren: heavy flamer - 55

Chaos Lord: khorne, juggernaught, axe of fury, sigil, melta bombs - 180
Most likely runs with the spawn, but a charge with the mutant unit is too good to pass up. Re-roll hits and wounds on possibly over a dozen s6 ap2 attacks? Yes please.

3 Chaos Terminators: combi-meltas, power axes, chain fist - 124
I'm really close to dropping these guys. They always seem to underperform. Either by not doing enough damage with their melta volley, having a deep strike mishap, or by simply having too few attacks in combat. That being said, even if they don't do real damage, they still work well as a disruption unit. 2+ saves with s8 ap2 attacks behind an opponent's lines can put them on tilt.

5 Chaos Marines: melta gun, bolt pistols, ccws, champion w/ melta bombs - 90
Rhino: dirge caster - 40

5 Chaos Marines: plasma gun, bolters, bolt pistols, champion w/ melta bombs - 95
Rhino: havoc launcher - 47
I felt spamming the same unit was boring, even though I know I need the melta.

5 Spawn - 150
Lord's retinue.

Hell Blade - 100

Sicaran Battle Tank - 135

Tzeench Herald: level 2 - 70
11 Horrors - 99
Summoning duty on the comms relay.

Soul Grinder: nurgle, phlegm - 180
Lookin' big and scary with the slaughterer.

Aegis: comms relay - 70
Mainly for getting my terminators and hell blade in, but can also be used to deep strike the walkers.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-04-14, 09:07 PM
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All the armies look pretty solid. Though IMOO missing the greatness that is Griffons, little over 100pts for 3 chimera shells with heavy bolter and a 12"-48" S6 AP4 Ordinance Barrage 1, Large Blast what can reroll scatter dice. They are insanely powerful in squads.
Also the Renegade Rapiers at 70pts for 3 of these BS3 Twin Linked 36" S9 AP1 Ordinance 1 shots (so roll 2D6 on pen and pick the highest). That is tank killing at its best.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-04-14, 09:23 PM
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One very minor point, but:

Quote:
Hell Blade - 100
Rending just isn't worth the loss of 2 shots to me.
How are you losing shots? 2 reapers upgraded to 2 helstorm. You're gaining 2 shots and rending for 10 points, unless I missed something.


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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-04-14, 09:32 PM
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Yup. Looking at it now, +[Plasma Pistol] for upgrading "its two Reaper autocannon to - Two Helstorm Autocannon...."

Each Helstorm provides +1 Shot, TL, Rending, and I think +12" range.



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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-04-14, 09:48 PM
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No shame in a more backfield plasma squad. You could use the anti heavy infantry too, honestly...

I might go non-nurgle with that Soul Grinder, since if it's going to be moving up to support the Blood Slaughterer... then it won't be hiding behind a ruin all game, and you might not want slow and purposeful on there.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-05-14, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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The griffon is great, I'd like to add one to my wyvren unit. However I use them mainly for ignoring cover and sniping characters. While s6 would be nice to kill T3 characters, I feel the 4 small blasts are much more reliable. Especially when targeting small units. "walking" templates after a bad scatter feels pretty good. Something I have to deal with often are IG units in ruins, against which a griffon does me no good.

The rapiers I certainly want to try. The laser destroyers feel a bit OP though. I don't want to turn my buddies off of forgeworld. Plus DE is almost always present for our games, which makes artillery models a bit useless. Especially ones that need line of sight. Venoms man...

Aww damn, you guys are right about the reaper autocannon. I got it confused with the "reaper autocannon battery" with 4 shots on the Fire Raptor.

I figured the soul grinder could be flexible, either sitting behind the aegis or using the mutants as cover. However, as he's such a big model I doubt he'd get 25% by basic infantry. Luckily changing the soul grinder to Khorne gives me the 15pts I need to upgrade the hell blade. I also completely forgot about slow and purposeful!

Last edited by NathanJD; 12-05-14 at 02:32 AM.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-05-14, 12:55 PM
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Laser Destroyers are not that OP. BS3 is 3 missed shots again. Filling your Heavies with 3x3 is difficult, and cheap at 270pts for AT, but 36" range and direct fire keeps it out of stand off range.

If people are still running low AV units, then yes, they're easily popped - 4+ to destroy, and a decent chance to penetrate (a 88% chance to penetrate Rhino armour is pretty cool), but against things like Land Raiders, it's still having to roll a 6. It has a better than normal chance of doing so - a 31% chance of doing so - which is 4 shots to get 1 pen, or 7 shots to "ensure" you roll a 4+ on the Pens by average - which is either 3 turns of shooting with one unit - or taking multiple models to get that result. Now - you may have already glanced it to death, or you may not, but by Turn 3, the Land Raider has already got where it needs to be and dropped off the Terminators deep into your lines.

They are also extremely easily countered by Bikes, Flyers, jump infantry, and cover, and are outranged by many counter battery fire. Sure, the gun can't be ID'd but with 2 wounds, artillery can put a ton of wounds on them. They are a "hard counter" unit in that they make some units in an area unuseable, such as light tanks. Medium tanks usually have weaponry which outrange, while heavy armour is usually capable of trucking on. There will always be that annoyance when a 30pt model kills a 250pt tank, but it's rare, and luck - and skill comes into it knowing when to avoid.

The major downside is that it's a heavy support choice.



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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-05-14, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
Laser Destroyers are not that OP. BS3 is 3 missed shots again. Filling your Heavies with 3x3 is difficult, and cheap at 270pts for AT, but 36" range and direct fire keeps it out of stand off range.

If people are still running low AV units, then yes, they're easily popped - 4+ to destroy, and a decent chance to penetrate (a 88% chance to penetrate Rhino armour is pretty cool), but against things like Land Raiders, it's still having to roll a 6. It has a better than normal chance of doing so - a 31% chance of doing so - which is 4 shots to get 1 pen, or 7 shots to "ensure" you roll a 4+ on the Pens by average - which is either 3 turns of shooting with one unit - or taking multiple models to get that result. Now - you may have already glanced it to death, or you may not, but by Turn 3, the Land Raider has already got where it needs to be and dropped off the Terminators deep into your lines.

They are also extremely easily countered by Bikes, Flyers, jump infantry, and cover, and are outranged by many counter battery fire. Sure, the gun can't be ID'd but with 2 wounds, artillery can put a ton of wounds on them. They are a "hard counter" unit in that they make some units in an area unuseable, such as light tanks. Medium tanks usually have weaponry which outrange, while heavy armour is usually capable of trucking on. There will always be that annoyance when a 30pt model kills a 250pt tank, but it's rare, and luck - and skill comes into it knowing when to avoid.

The major downside is that it's a heavy support choice.
70pts for 3 rapiers with BS3 makes 210pts for 3X3. Also Twin linked means BS3 is a 75% chance to hit. Also Pen on 2D6 picking the highest makes it pen vs AP (If To Hit is factored in)

AV10 = 91.67% (68.75%)
AV11 = 88.89% (66.67%)
AV12 = 75% (56.25%)
AV13 = 55.56% (41.67%)
AV14 = 30.56% (22.92%)

So i think that is pretty good. Also at AP1 as said it is 4+ to kill if you do. For 23.33pts a model is insane. Though if you work out the odds of 1 shotting a land raider with them is still about 200pts of rapiers all shooting it for 1 turn. Of course the likely chance being that if it actually takes just 6 (140pts) to glance it to death and still has a chance to 1 shot it anyway.
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