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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-14, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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Default 3000pt Death Guard vs Ultramarine/Tau

I'm having a 3000pt battle against Ultramaines/Tau. 3000 points for me, and 1500 for each for them. I've got 2 lists. First one looks like this:

HQ

Daemon Prince - Black Mace, MoN, Wings, Power Armour, lvl 3 psyker, spell familiar, BBoS - 385

Typhus - 230

Troops

10x Plague Marines, 2x Melta guns, combi-melta, melta bombs - 275

2x 10x Plague Marines 2x Plasma guns, combi-plasma, melta bombs - 285 x 2 = 570

20x Plague Zombies - 90

Elites

4x Terminators MoN, 4x combi-plas, chain fist, power fist in landraider w/ typhus (maybe) - 189 + 230 = 419

Fast

3x Bikers MoN, 2x Melta guns, combi-melta, power weapon - 133

5x Raptors, 2x melta guns, combi-melta - 125

Helldrake w/ baleflamer - 170

Heavy

5x havocs, 4x A/C, MoN behind ADL w/ quad gun - 230

3x oblits, MoN - 228

Vindicator, combi-bolter, siege shield - 135

that leaves 10 points left over. Not sure if i should run Typhus in the Raider with 4 other termis or with 20 zombies. Either way my oblits will start on the field and lay down heavy fire on anything it can, vindi will also be bombing blobs. Bikers will hunt tanks with raptors who Deepstrike in. Daemon prince will fly on with the Helldrake and wreck shit.

My other list goes a little something like this.

HQ

Typhus - 230

Sorcerer - psyker lvl 3, MoN, spell familiar, force axe, SoC - 165

Troops

9 Plague Marines - 2x Plasma guns, combi Plasma, melta bombs - 308 + rhino /w Havoc launcher

10 Plague Marines - 2x Melta Guns, combi melta, melta bombs - 322 + rhino w/ Havoc launcher

20 Plague Zombies

Fast

2x Chaos Spawn - MoN - 72

Helldrake - baleflamer - 170

Heavy

8 Havocs - 4 Autocannons, IoV (fearless) - 194

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152


2nd Primary Detachment

Chaos Lord - MoK, AoBF, SoC, Juggernaught, VotLW - 175

Troops

10x Beserkers - IoW, VotLW, melta bombs - 230

10x CSM - MoK, IoW, CCW instead of bolters - 180

Fast

3x Bikers - MoK, IoW, Power weapon, 2x flamers, combi flamer, melta bombs. - 136

5x raptors - 2x melta guns, combi melta - 125

Heavy

Predator - Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolter sponsons - 95

Forgefiend - 3x Ectoplasma cannons - 200

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152

4 points left over for this list.

This battle is going to be a relic based mission. My plan with this list is to send my khorne based marines up to the relic flanked by the plague marines. Hope my plague marines will take most of the fire and let the zerkers run back to base with the relic. While this is happening I'll have my havocs and predator laying down fire on troops and my forgefiend bombing anything it can. Bikers and juggerlord will be together sitting behind the 2x spawn to soak up some fire and start cleaving marines. Sorcerer will be in the plasma marine squad and Typhus will be moving up the opposite side the juggerlord is with his zombie retinue. Oblits, raptors and helldrake in reserves. Raptors there to take out a Hunter and oblits can support by taking out any other armour that may be causing trouble. Helldrake can fly on and do what a helldrake does best.

The true nature of Chaos is beyond any comprehension. No mere mortal can ever hope to understand these matters, and the wise do not puzzle too deeply over Chaos Gods, or try to fathom their wars, rivalries and bickerings.


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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-14, 03:53 AM
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Hey!

Advice in red, going to pick on things in both lists, not sure which one I like the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whittsy View Post
I'm having a 3000pt battle against Ultramaines/Tau. 3000 points for me, and 1500 for each for them. I've got 2 lists. First one looks like this:

HQ

Daemon Prince - Black Mace, MoN, Wings, Power Armour, lvl 3 psyker, spell familiar, BBoS - 385

Typhus - 230

You cannot take the Black Mace and the BBoS. As you are takeing the MoN I would drop the Mace and run him as a dakka Prince, keep him out of CC and run around exploding stuff! (you could get away without the Armour as well, given then fact he will be flying and surouded)

Typhus

Never Ran Typhus, but is good on paper with the terminators he will be a scary target

Troops

10x Plague Marines, 2x Melta guns, combi-melta, melta bombs - 275

2x 10x Plague Marines 2x Plasma guns, combi-plasma, melta bombs - 285 x 2 = 570

I like both these units, Almost feel its worth cuting them into 4 squads to get 2 more special weapons. But that's just me.

20x Plague Zombies - 90

Cool, I would love so see a bigger blob but I know you have said before you are limmited on your weapons.

Elites

4x Terminators MoN, 4x combi-plas, chain fist, power fist in landraider w/ typhus (maybe) - 189 + 230 = 419

Nice, I would drop the Combi-plas. Their is no need for shooting if you are in the "Landbunker"

Fast

3x Bikers MoN, 2x Melta guns, combi-melta, power weapon - 133

5x Raptors, 2x melta guns, combi-melta - 125

Both very sensible choices. I would drop the Power Weapon on the bike, a bit of an over spend on a unit that you should want to keep out of CC (apart from very week units)

Helldrake w/ baleflamer - 170

Yep, Cheep and powerfull what more could we ask for! (well maybe some bombs or something!)

Heavy

5x havocs, 4x A/C, MoN behind ADL w/ quad gun - 230

[COLOR="red"]Nice, lots of shooting. great unit.. May be you need a few more men for wounds/COLOR]

3x oblits, MoN - 228

Vindicator, combi-bolter, siege shield - 135

again both soild choices, not sure about the combi-volter on the Vindicator.

that leaves 10 points left over. Not sure if i should run Typhus in the Raider with 4 other termis or with 20 zombies. Either way my oblits will start on the field and lay down heavy fire on anything it can, vindi will also be bombing blobs. Bikers will hunt tanks with raptors who Deepstrike in. Daemon prince will fly on with the Helldrake and wreck shit.

Droping the Powerweapon, the Combi-bolter, Combo-Plas's, and the Black mace gives you 100 and something to play with. Perhaps a Hellbrute? Or A predator.

My other list goes a little something like this.

HQ

Typhus - 230

Sorcerer - psyker lvl 3, MoN, spell familiar, force axe, SoC - 165

Like them both, run them in the same unit and things get scary!

Troops

9 Plague Marines - 2x Plasma guns, combi Plasma, melta bombs - 308 + rhino /w Havoc launcher

10 Plague Marines - 2x Melta Guns, combi melta, melta bombs - 322 + rhino w/ Havoc launcher

20 Plague Zombies

Eh, kinda worried by low scoring units I know its the relic mission, but even so

Fast

2x Chaos Spawn - MoN - 72

Helldrake - baleflamer - 170

Again both good choices, not 100% on the Spawn, but its up to you


Heavy

8 Havocs - 4 Autocannons, IoV (fearless) - 194

Icon of Vengace may be overkill. otherwise a good unit.

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152

I would drop the IOV and see if you can find a few other points to get a 3rd Obliterator

2nd Primary Detachment

Chaos Lord - MoK, AoBF, SoC, Juggernaught, VotLW - 175

A nice choice to grab the Artifact. What unit is he with?

Troops

10x Beserkers - IoW, VotLW, melta bombs - 230

10x CSM - MoK, IoW, CCW instead of bolters - 180

Both nice units, thinking about it I would drop the Juggernaught and a marine and run the lord in the CSM squad

Fast

3x Bikers - MoK, IoW, Power weapon, 2x flamers, combi flamer, melta bombs. - 136

5x raptors - 2x melta guns, combi melta - 125

Again, I would cut down the bikers, drop the Icon and MOK, and Power Weapon. Run them with Meltas and go huniting tanks. If you want fast CC, the raptors is a better plan

Heavy

Predator - Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolter sponsons - 95

Forgefiend - 3x Ectoplasma cannons - 200

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152

Your HS looks good. I would think about adding a Havoc and some combo-bolters on the Pred

This battle is going to be a relic based mission. My plan with this list is to send my khorne based marines up to the relic flanked by the plague marines. Hope my plague marines will take most of the fire and let the zerkers run back to base with the relic. While this is happening I'll have my havocs and predator laying down fire on troops and my forgefiend bombing anything it can. Bikers and juggerlord will be together sitting behind the 2x spawn to soak up some fire and start cleaving marines. Sorcerer will be in the plasma marine squad and Typhus will be moving up the opposite side the juggerlord is with his zombie retinue. Oblits, raptors and helldrake in reserves. Raptors there to take out a Hunter and oblits can support by taking out any other armour that may be causing trouble. Helldrake can fly on and do what a helldrake does best.
The Plan is sound. I personaly hate reserves, you miss turns of action and only in the rare case does one unit ariving late help. But thats just me.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-14, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
HQ

Daemon Prince - Black Mace, MoN, Wings, Power Armour, lvl 3 psyker, spell familiar, BBoS - 385

Typhus - 230

You cannot take the Black Mace and the BBoS. As you are takeing the MoN I would drop the Mace and run him as a dakka Prince, keep him out of CC and run around exploding stuff! (you could get away without the Armour as well, given then fact he will be flying and surouded)
Noted, this will save me many points!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
10x Plague Marines, 2x Melta guns, combi-melta, melta bombs - 275

2x 10x Plague Marines 2x Plasma guns, combi-plasma, melta bombs - 285 x 2 = 570

I like both these units, Almost feel its worth cuting them into 4 squads to get 2 more special weapons. But that's just me.
3 units, 3 squads of 10. The reason they are 10 strong is because i find Tau seem to kill 2-3 guys in a squad a turn with longer range and S5 guns, and my terrible rolls. 10 just keeps them truckin for 2-3 extra turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
20x Plague Zombies - 90

Cool, I would love so see a bigger blob but I know you have said before you are limmited on your weapons.
I know, one day, I'll have a thousand cultists! And I'll rule the world! MUHAHAHAHA! Ahem....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
4x Terminators MoN, 4x combi-plas, chain fist, power fist in landraider w/ typhus (maybe) - 189 + 230 = 419

Nice, I would drop the Combi-plas. Their is no need for shooting if you are in the "Landbunker"
only there for a disembark, blow up a few guys with artificer armour/few wounds on a riptide and then charge in and make a mess of things. But I see your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Fast

3x Bikers MoN, 2x Melta guns, combi-melta, power weapon - 133

5x Raptors, 2x melta guns, combi-melta - 125

Both very sensible choices. I would drop the Power Weapon on the bike, a bit of an over spend on a unit that you should want to keep out of CC (apart from very week units)

Helldrake w/ baleflamer - 170

Yep, Cheep and powerfull what more could we ask for! (well maybe some bombs or something!)
Yeah, im thinking of switching the bikers to plasma for longer range AP2 shots and keeping them away from CC all together. About the drake, my brothers constantly complain about the heldrake being unfair, I just tell them "so the only decent thing in my team that's better than any of your guys is unfair, but its ok to take a riptide or troops with stormshields?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Heavy

5x havocs, 4x A/C, MoN behind ADL w/ quad gun - 230

[COLOR="red"]Nice, lots of shooting. great unit.. May be you need a few more men for wounds/COLOR]

3x oblits, MoN - 228

Vindicator, combi-bolter, siege shield - 135

again both soild choices, not sure about the combi-volter on the Vindicator
Combi-bolter is there to make the weapon destroyed thing 50/50 no instantly make a vindicator a tank shocker all game.

This list is basically cramming in most of my models into 1 army, the second list was after I read the part in the rule book stating "in a 2000 point game, you may take 2 primary detachments as long as they are from the same codex, also allowing you to take 2 allied detachments from the same allied codex." Hence list 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
HQ

Typhus - 230

Sorcerer - psyker lvl 3, MoN, spell familiar, force axe, SoC - 165

Like them both, run them in the same unit and things get scary!
Gotta try and break 'em up. Have spells flying out from 2 different directions, keeps my options open!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Troops

9 Plague Marines - 2x Plasma guns, combi Plasma, melta bombs - 308 + rhino /w Havoc launcher

10 Plague Marines - 2x Melta Guns, combi melta, melta bombs - 322 + rhino w/ Havoc launcher

20 Plague Zombies

Eh, kinda worried by low scoring units I know its the relic mission, but even so
zombies with Typhus drawing fire, which I now know he will from my game against Tau the other day, he'll draw 2-3 turns of fire and allow me to make my move. He's a very expensive decoy this game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Fast

2x Chaos Spawn - MoN - 72

Helldrake - baleflamer - 170

Again both good choices, not 100% on the Spawn, but its up to you
Spawn are there for a meat shield, 6 wounds on T6 Isn't easy to kill. They will lead the Juggerlord and the bikers, so they can advance and do their thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Heavy

8 Havocs - 4 Autocannons, IoV (fearless) - 194

Icon of Vengace may be overkill. otherwise a good unit.

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152

I would drop the IOV and see if you can find a few other points to get a 3rd Obliterator
The IoV is there in case something bad hits the havocs, I need them there for dakka and cant afford them to run. Plus I've got 2 more oblits in my other detachment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
2nd Primary Detachment

Chaos Lord - MoK, AoBF, SoC, Juggernaught, VotLW - 175

A nice choice to grab the Artifact. What unit is he with?
Bikers/Spawn (i know spawn are nurgle, but they'll be about 3" behind so not in same unit)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Troops

10x Beserkers - IoW, VotLW, melta bombs - 230

10x CSM - MoK, IoW, CCW instead of bolters - 180

Both nice units, thinking about it I would drop the Juggernaught and a marine and run the lord in the CSM squad
These guys are the scoring unit. They run for the relic, the berserkers are in place purely for khornish delight, if i think that i can safely get the relic with the other squad and get away, the zerkers can go spill blood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
3x Bikers - MoK, IoW, Power weapon, 2x flamers, combi flamer, melta bombs. - 136

5x raptors - 2x melta guns, combi melta - 125

Again, I would cut down the bikers, drop the Icon and MOK, and Power Weapon. Run them with Meltas and go huniting tanks. If you want fast CC, the raptors is a better plan
I've done the old "raptorcide" with oblit support and it actually works wonders. More often than not the raptors then jump into some cover and start butchering scouts. while the oblits carry on obliterating... Worst comes to worse the bikers can break off from the juggerlord and scoop up the relic too, so I need them for mobility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uveron View Post
Heavy

Predator - Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolter sponsons - 95

Forgefiend - 3x Ectoplasma cannons - 200

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152

Your HS looks good. I would think about adding a Havoc and some combo-bolters on the Pred
Thanks. I would add a havoc launcher but I already have 2 on my rhinos. I've learn that havoc launchers chew up firewarriors for breakfast seeing as they have 5+ save, err... no save to the havoc!

If anything I could drop the combi-flamer and power weapon on the biker champ and throw a havoc launcher on the pred and a combi-bolter. Maybe a combi-bolter on the juggerlord too. Thanks Uveron!

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-30-14, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whittsy View Post
Noted, this will save me many points!


3 units, 3 squads of 10. The reason they are 10 strong is because i find Tau seem to kill 2-3 guys in a squad a turn with longer range and S5 guns, and my terrible rolls. 10 just keeps them truckin for 2-3 extra turns.

Ok I see your point. I still would rather have the higher number of special weapons on the table!

only there for a disembark, blow up a few guys with artificer armour/few wounds on a riptide and then charge in and make a mess of things. But I see your point.

Plasma guns are rapid fire, stays the same as Combi-Plas so you canot Charge after firing them. Combi-Flamers may do the job better!

Yeah, im thinking of switching the bikers to plasma for longer range AP2 shots and keeping them away from CC all together.

Could be a good plan, Meltas work better for instant killing marines and Tau battle suits.


Combi-bolter is there to make the weapon destroyed thing 50/50 no instantly make a vindicator a tank shocker all game.

OK, or 5pts its proably a good plan

zombies with Typhus drawing fire, which I now know he will from my game against Tau the other day, he'll draw 2-3 turns of fire and allow me to make my move. He's a very expensive decoy this game....

A very expensive decoy, 8% of your army is alot!


Spawn are there for a meat shield, 6 wounds on T6 Isn't easy to kill. They will lead the Juggerlord and the bikers, so they can advance and do their thing.

OK, I can see that, but are only 2 going to provide the cover you need?

The IoV is there in case something bad hits the havocs, I need them there for dakka and cant afford them to run. Plus I've got 2 more oblits in my other detachment.

Ok, what bad things are you trying to protect them from? becuse if they get in CC then you have lost them to most things.

These guys are the scoring unit. They run for the relic, the berserkers are in place purely for khornish delight, if i think that i can safely get the relic with the other squad and get away, the zerkers can go spill blood.

Sounds not a bad plan, but Zerkers are expensive for what they are. Chosen with MOK do just as well.


I've done the old "raptorcide" with oblit support and it actually works wonders. More often than not the raptors then jump into some cover and start butchering scouts. while the oblits carry on obliterating... Worst comes to worse the bikers can break off from the juggerlord and scoop up the relic too, so I need them for mobility.


Are you planing on Deepstriking them along with the Oblits?

Thanks. I would add a havoc launcher but I already have 2 on my rhinos. I've learn that havoc launchers chew up firewarriors for breakfast seeing as they have 5+ save, err... no save to the havoc!

They are great on most units, MEQ's still have a save but it still hurts.

If anything I could drop the combi-flamer and power weapon on the biker champ and throw a havoc launcher on the pred and a combi-bolter. Maybe a combi-bolter on the juggerlord too. Thanks Uveron!
Overall I agree the second list is better at the mission ahead.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-31-14, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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HQ

Typhus - 230

Sorcerer - psyker lvl 3, MoN, spell familiar, force axe, SoC - 165

Troops

9 Plague Marines - 2x Plasma guns, combi Plasma, melta bombs - 313 + rhino /w Havoc launcher, combi bolter

10 Plague Marines - 2x Melta Guns, combi melta, melta bombs - 328 + rhino w/ Havoc launcher, combi-bolter

20 Plague Zombies - 90

Fast

3x Chaos Spawn - MoN - 108

Helldrake - baleflamer - 170

Heavy

8 Havocs - 4 Autocannons, IoV (fearless) - 194

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152


2nd Primary Detachment

Chaos Lord - MoK, AoBF, SoC, Juggernaught, VotLW - 175

Troops

10x CSM - MoK, IoW, VotLW, CCW instead of bolters, - 190

10x CSM - MoK, IoW, VotLW, CCW instead of bolters - 190

Fast

3x Bikers - MoK, IoW, 2x flamers, melta bombs. - 111

5x raptors - 2x melta guns, combi melta - 125

Heavy

Predator - Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolter sponsons, havoc, combi bolter - 112

Forgefiend - 3x Ectoplasma cannons - 200

2x Obliterators - MoN - 152

Taken in your considerations @Uveron . havoc on the pred and combi bolter, combi-bolters on the rhinos. Dropped the zerkers for regular khorne marines with CCWs ( i figure they are cheaper and will be doing the same thing except at -1 str on the charge). Dropped power weapon and combi-weapon on the biker champ and added another Spawn to sit infront of the juggerlord.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-31-14, 09:25 AM
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I think that looks like a much stronger list.

I hope the Dice stay on your side this game!
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-31-14, 10:23 AM
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what are you running the khrone lord with or just on his own ?
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-31-14, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loki619 View Post
what are you running the khrone lord with or just on his own ?
... Khorne Lord is with the 3 bikers which is being spear headed by 3 Nurgle spawn. (3 inches away so they are not in coherency with the bikers though, because nurgle and khorne cant!) and soak up hits/give them a better cover save (5+ PLUS 5+ jink = 3+ cover save, correct?)

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-01-14, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whittsy View Post
... Khorne Lord is with the 3 bikers which is being spear headed by 3 Nurgle spawn. (3 inches away so they are not in coherency with the bikers though, because nurgle and khorne cant!) and soak up hits/give them a better cover save (5+ PLUS 5+ jink = 3+ cover save, correct?)
Nope...just a 5+. intervening units do not grant stealth or something. they just act as an intervening piece of terrain. so the jink save is all you got.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-02-14, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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Nope...just a 5+. intervening units do not grant stealth or something. they just act as an intervening piece of terrain. so the jink save is all you got.
A man can dream though.... a man can dream....

Your insight on the CSM army is pretty solid Nef, is it a solid list do you think?

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