2 variants of Khorne (1500) - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-11-13, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Default 2 variants of Khorne (1500)

List 1

Kharn 160

20x cultists, MoK, 2x Flamers 140
10x berserkers, lightning claw, Land raider 445

4x bikers, 2 meltas 110
4x bikers, 2 meltas 110
heldrake 170

vindicator, bolter 125
vindicator, bolter 125
5x havocs, 4x autocannons 115

TOT. 1500

Kharn goes with the cultists, giving them fearless while they give him a lot of ablative wounds. They proceed foot slogging in cover behind LR and vindies.

As you can see, fairly fast and assault oriented army. this is pretty similar to another variant i had posted on this forum months ago:

List 2

Kharn 160

20 cultists, 2x flamer 100

8x berserkers,power weapon, rhino, dirge caster 217

8x berserkers, power weapon, rhino, dirge caster 217

4 bikers, 2 meltas 110
4 bikers, 2 meltas 110
heldrake 170

2x oblits 140
vindicator, bolter 125
vindicator, bolter 125

1474

The reason why i came up with list 1 is that i wanted to fill in the LR, wich will give the opponent some hard choices to make between armor and the advancing horde. This however impacts on the body count (pretty low) and on the firepower (havocs instead of obliterators). What do you think?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-12-13, 09:22 AM
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in my experience i've found much more point-effective, khornate marines over berserkers. Shure, they are not fearless, but cost less points and can have 2 special weapons.
Kharn too is less performing than a murderaxe-lord.
besides, i love the khornate cultists.
List 1 is the way to go ;)

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-12-13, 03:57 PM
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Its a sweet mix!
I like the first army list better if it had more Khorn units (marine). Yet you can have some fun with this Army list either way!
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-13-13, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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@Neferhet: i've been thinking a lot about taking marked csm instead of berserkers, but i'm not so sure. The thing that bothers me the most is the lost of fearless. One could solve that issue giving them an icon of vengeance, but:

- 10X csm, MoK, additional ccw (except on champion and the 2 flamer guys), 2x flamers, LC, IoV = 224
- 10X berserkers, LC = 215

The only way to make the csm actually cheaper would be to swap the bolters for a close combat weapon (instead of adding the ccw on top of bolt pistol and bolter). They would then come in at 210 (only 5 points cheaper). But in this case you lose effective mid range firepower and then felxibility.

So, after all, gearing out the csm squad to get close to a berserker equivalent turns out more expensive than the berserker themselves...
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-13, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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Oh and btw i just realized the first list is illegal since the LR would take a 4th Heavy support slot... Any suggestions?
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-20-13, 09:31 PM
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Well you could just try and Add more meat bags (cultist). But really why not just add some basic troops. Look trow the codex at the Basic area and see what fits nicest for what you are going for.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-21-13, 03:19 AM
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Why not just use MoK Space Marines with Long War? You don't get Fearless, but you get Ld 9 for the squad, 10 with the Champion.... it's pretty damn good. At that point you could take the squad you suggested, WITH 2 flamers, for the same cost of the 'serkers without any upgrades.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-21-13, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmy1916 View Post
Oh and btw i just realized the first list is illegal since the LR would take a 4th Heavy support slot... Any suggestions?
...take the second list? (Or drop the Havocs, but those guys are just fun)

In list 2 I'd be tempted to run with Havocs instead of Oblits, but whatever you like.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-21-13, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmy1916 View Post
@Neferhet: i've been thinking a lot about taking marked csm instead of berserkers, but i'm not so sure. The thing that bothers me the most is the lost of fearless. One could solve that issue giving them an icon of vengeance, but:

- 10X csm, MoK, additional ccw (except on champion and the 2 flamer guys), 2x flamers, LC, IoV = 224
- 10X berserkers, LC = 215

The only way to make the csm actually cheaper would be to swap the bolters for a close combat weapon (instead of adding the ccw on top of bolt pistol and bolter). They would then come in at 210 (only 5 points cheaper). But in this case you lose effective mid range firepower and then felxibility.

So, after all, gearing out the csm squad to get close to a berserker equivalent turns out more expensive than the berserker themselves...
I think you are missing an important point: with berserker you don't have any choice to swap bolters for ccw. With marines you can decide to have a cc oriented unit or an all rounder unit with bolters and MoK (you just lose 1 attack on the charge), and giving them Veterans, you can have a good punch Vs Marines, plus Ld 9 /10
so you should go like this
10 Marines, MoK, 2 Flamers, VotLW, Lightning claw, ccw, Icon of wrath (215)
Exactly the same as Berserkers, but you have Hatred vs marines, 2 flamers and the icon, plus you don't need a khorne lord to be troop, and could decide to swap just some of the bolters to ccw's.
Nope, I'm sorry. Zerkers are just a not so performing. they are a specialist cc unit that perform just the same as regular khornate marines (same number of attacks, same strenght, same resistance), and this is just for the first charge round. next turn they perform like UNMARKED marines.
They lack punch, they lack options, they lack flexibility....
So, why should i prefer Berzerkers over, say, even Noise Marines?
(okay that's because I like to paint pink...)

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-21-13, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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mmmh....lots of food for thought here. Thanks everybody for the insights.

I think that the more competitive option for a list including the LR would be shaving the two vindicators, and filling the heavy support with a squad of 3 obliterators, a squad of AC havocs and having the LR on the third slot.

But that looks a bit boring to me, i don't play really competitive so i think i may stick with the 2 vindicators and havocs, and no havocs if i take the LR. I really like the vindi - havocs combo, it sounds pretty funny. You have big guns blasting everything AND torrents of auto fire, really, what's not to like? sounds like a tacky action movie.

As for the CSM / berserkers issue, i think i am slowly but steadily starting to accept that marked csm are a better option, tactically and pointwise.

i don't have the codex right here with me but i may come up soon with other variants for you fellas to review ;) Thanks again!

L.
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