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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-19-11, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Default 1750 pts For All Comers (I guess...)

2 Heralds of Tzeench
- Chariot
- We Are Legion
- Master of Sorcery
- Bolt of Change
[2 * 110]
These guys are just too good to pass up. They can work tank and marine hunting pretty effectively. They're tough and mobile, and even can split their attacks so no shot is wasted. Also looking forward to modelling these

Herald of Khorne
- Unholy Might
- Juggernaught
[120]
He's here as a buff for the Bloodletter squad, simply making them even more deadly in combat.

2 * 5 Fiends
- Unholy Might
[2 * 160]
I've heard these guys are a must have for a Daemon list, a staggering number of rending attacks, coupled with a fast movement speed means they tear through light infantry, and even give the tougher things a run for their money. Not sure how best to use their Hit & Run though...

15 Bloodletters
[240]
I love the models, and also, they're Power Weapon armed. Albeit fragile, they still hit pretty hard against Marines and the like.

2 * 5 Plaguebearers
[2 * 75]
They're tough as nails with invulnerable saves and Feel No Pain. Probably gonna see the most use being Deepstruck onto objectives in the first wave. Then they can happily sit in the cover those objectives provide and soak up fire.

3 * 5 Horrors
- Bolt of Change
[3 * 95]
As much as Bolt caddies as anything else. They're support for the Plaguebearers, going down in the first wave to the objectives.

5 Screamers
[80]
A fast and annoying anti-tank unit. Hopefully there to threaten anything that might want to sit on the baseline and fire away. If as nothing else, it'll encourage an opponent to keep moving their tanks, limiting the amount they can fire. Perhaps this squad should be bigger, not sure.

Daemon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeench
- Bolt of Change
- Daemonic Gaze
- Master of Sorcery
[230]
Yet another bolt in the army. He's fire support, but can provide mobile combat beef as well, as necessary. Master of Sorcery ensures that he can get the most out of his shooting each turn.

[1735]

Comments and Criticisim please, I'd like to make the list as effective as possible, but I don't want to include a Soul Grinder (for transport reasons). The main reason I've not thrown in another Plague Bearer is because I'm not spending 10 for the one model. ;)
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-19-11, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asura Varuna View Post
2 Heralds of Tzeench
- Chariot
- We Are Legion
- Master of Sorcery
- Bolt of Change
fine, everyone loves this build... except me, I prefer to switch WAL for breath of chaos for even more damage potential.

Herald of Khorne
- Unholy Might
- Juggernaught
you really dont need him- bloodletters will already cut through anything they catch, they dont really need a buff... and if they did spending this guy's points on more bloodletters would be much more effective. I would drop him... he really doesn't give you anything.

2 * 5 Fiends
- Unholy Might
always good.... could add in the last fiend to both units but they'll do fine in units of 5.

15 Bloodletters
very nice... I dont love bloodletters but if your going to use them this is a decent size of unit.

2 * 5 Plaguebearers
yeah, solid scoring units are always useful... though they will evaporate if something nasty hits them (I play SW a lot and a unit with D6+1 rending, 3 PW and 3 TH attacks just scythes through PBs).

3 * 5 Horrors
- Bolt of Change
for the points there is no reason not to add the changeling to one of these units... he is great (if not for me- I'm at about 0/50 attempts) as although he isn't going to do much most games he can potentially turn a game and is a pathetic amount of points.

5 Screamers
[80]
I love these guys, I prefer units of 3 since they can normally kill tanks still and it gives me more units of them to go tank hunting and as suicide objective blockers turns 5, 6 and 7.

Daemon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeench
- Bolt of Change
- Daemonic Gaze
- Master of Sorcery
Nooooooo..... 230pts on a model that you could make almost as good for 140pts is a total waste, and I dont like them at 140pts either. Choose what you want, if its just a bolt then take it as such and lose the gaze and wings... you need to lose the MoS anyway since its useless: MCs can already fire 2 weapons, MoS lets you fire a 3rd, which you dont have.

[1735]
Its a decent list, solid without being immense. Personally I would lose the DP completely and just ignore heavy support- with only 1 MC on the board he'll take a lot of fire, while if you scrap him for more elites then the enemy anti-tank is just all going to waste (especially since daemons all have inv saves). I recommend either a unit of 3 flamers to be a suicide unit against anything nasty sitting in cover (bloodletters are not good charging into cover) or mebbe add more fiends/bloodcrushers to act as another hammer unit.

Other fun things you could try is to add more chariots of tzeentch or even cheap chariots of slaanesh (unholy might, mebbe musk gives you 14 S5 attacks with rending and they're pretty damn cheap). More screamers would also be helpful- keep enemy vehicles scattering and moving fast.... they are also not too bad at killing remnants: in my mono-tzeentch I often send my screamers into the last 2-3 models in a unit to kill them instead of needing to direct ab overkill amount of shooting their way.


Last edited by Tim/Steve; 02-20-11 at 05:01 PM.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-19-11, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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The Herald of Khorne and DP were mainly there to fill points when I cut Daemonettes from the list and to make it up to 1750 (from 1500). I'm building this in such a way that most of the elements slot into the Fantasy army too, and when Daemonettes got cut from that, they got cut from this too.

So yeah:
- Cut the Herald of Khorne all together.
- Split the Screamers into to units of 3.
- Add a unit of 3 Flamers as suiciders.

As for that Daemon Prince. I was getting WaL and MoS mixed up. I was trying to give him WaL, which isn't actually listed as an option. O_o No idea why. But seeing as I'm use Be'lakor as my DP model, I can't not give him wings, even if I do drop the MoS and Gaze. MoT is as much for the improved save as access to Bolt. Hmm, might cut him anyway.

The thing is, following the standard force organisation chart, Daemons don't really have that many good options. Both their Fast Attack and Heavy Support are completely naff, and all their good stuff is in the Elites. Seeing as I'm gonna end up with about 50 or so Bloodletters anyway, would it be worth throwing another squad into the list, as another assualt and scoring unit?

Might butcher my last TK chariot in fact and make a third Herald, and might add another 5 man Horror unit, seeing as I'll have the models anyway.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-19-11, 10:54 PM
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Daemon elites are immense... but I actually like the fast attack options. Screamers are great fun, flesh hounds are pretty good as anti-tank and can hold their own in a fight and seekers have an insane number of attacks... although its only screamers that really force their way into my lists (the others get used in mono-lists but not normally in mixed lists).

I use lots or no MC/vehicles in almost all my armies and daemons are no exception. If I take a soul grinder then I take 2 or 3, if I take a DP I would normally have 1-2 greater daemons and 2-3 DPs.
Enemies will normally take enough heavy weapons to down an MC about once a turn... take enough and they'll survive to start tearing the opponent to pieces; if you only have 1 you need to try to hit the enemy really really hard before they can start to kill you... to me that would mean flamers suiciding into place to try to get rid of heavy weapon units (like devys) and bolts to try to stun the nastier tanks.

My most common HQs are tzeentch chariots or a couple of GUO- the first one laughs at heavy weapons and the second is both cheap and very jard to kill... either way they absorb a lot of enemy firepower, which hopefully means other parts of my army survive long enough to do their job.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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3 Heralds of Tzeench
- Chariot
- We Are Legion
- Master of Sorcery
- Bolt of Change
[3 * 110]

2 * 5 Fiends
- Unholy Might
[2 * 160]

3 Flamers
[105]

15 Bloodletters
[240]

2 * 5 Plaguebearers
[2 * 75]

4 * 5 Horrors
- Bolt of Change
[4 * 95]

3 * 4 Screamers
[3 * 64]

[1749]

That's the updated list. I'm honestly struggling to find places to put the points without wasting it on Daemon Princes and the like. I don't fancy spending the money on a GD, so they're out of the question too. I think I'll just have to rely on the 7 bolts and 12 screamers for AT, even though that's probably overkill... It just seems as though many of the other options simply aren't worth taking. The only other consideration was taking a unit of 3 Bloodcrushers, but I doubt they'd achieve much more than Bloodletters would, and once again, they're expensive models which have even less use in Fantasy.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-20-11, 07:37 AM
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That list isn't legal anyway... 7 troops choices...

I'd drop the letters to 10... add Skulltaker on Juggernaut... and drop a group of horrors... get rid of the flamers and try and find room for about 5 or 6 crushers... no less than 4... one with icon... and max out the fiends... 6 S5 w/ rending is big...

I'm not sure where that leaves you in points but that's a rough estimate on what'd make this list pretty hard to beat...

PS: Bloodcrushers are the best elite unit in 40k almost... 3 base power attacks at s5... 4 attacks at s6 on the charge... a 3/5 save two wounds apiece... the only downside is they're not considered cavalry... take them... I ran a 6 strong group with an icon and skully on a jug vs an eldar list one time... ran through two squads of those guardian bastards and lost only 4... WAY worth it...


Last edited by Nagi21; 02-20-11 at 07:40 AM.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-21-11, 04:53 AM
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2nd list looks a lot better. HQ looks good. Elite look O.K. while I do think crushers are the best unit in the daemon codex and they would help give you some more durability. fiends work with how fast your list is and flamers are great so could keep it as is. Would defiantly try to get the fiends to 6 though. I take one big unit of horrors to mow down troops I find 5 and a bolt at BS 3 just do not cut it.

Agree that Heavy support has to be 3 or none.

Not sure why you like screamers. So what if the tanks moves it still gets to shoot 1 weapon and that's all it needs, leaving the screamers needing 6s to hit and shot up pretty fast.

Not sure id be bragging about only losing 4 to 2 groups of guardian. I don't even know an elder player who runes them because they are so bad lol. crushers are a great unit though they are really hard to kill even more so with wound allocation they slow but you would not believe how hard it is to get around huge bases 2 inches apart.

Let me know how screamers work for you though.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-24-11, 04:40 PM
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Flamers mate, all the way. Give as many things as possible Breath of Chaos. It doesn't let me down.

Nice list but I would take more bloodletters and the Skulltaker just for that extra power!

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-24-11, 08:01 PM
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Flamers are great- kee them cheap (units of 3, no bolt) and DS them right in close next to the hardest unit the enemy has. I normally go for devys or termminators (or equivalent) but if the opponent is running limitted troops then they're good targets too.
Yes this is a suicidal tactic- you'll often have trouble with DS mishap and will almost always get killed off before you can make a 2nd attack... but then that doesn't normally matter. Manage to DS somewhere close to your target and get overlapping flamer templates hitting it and they'll die in droves. Taking out whole units of 10 marines with your 3 flamers isnt actually all that difficult (imagine turn 2 2 units of flamers DS in and kill 2*10 tactical marines... you might just have removed all the enemies troops in 1 go, and its a huge psychological victory anytime you can kill that many MEQ that quickly).

I'm not a huge fan of skulltaker- he's a little better then normal HoK and you pay for it. Best thing about him is if you play lots of MCs since he can ID them pretty easily, but against standard armies I would just use bloodletters (you can get a fair few of them in place of skulltaker).


Last edited by Tim/Steve; 02-24-11 at 08:03 PM.
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