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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-09-10, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Default Chaos Daemon Codex

Is this the worst army right now, excluding Necrons? WH40k is an extremely random game and this army just adds droves and droves more randomness. You get to start out with only half of your army. You randomly don't even get the half you want. All of them randomly appear on the board, 2/3 of the time not even in the spot you want. You could very well not even get to play with the other half of your army. No amount of strategy you employ can overcome the amount of randomness this army possesses. There will be games where you feel unstoppable and other games where there is literally nothing you can do.

I think I just need a noob-friendly army, so I think I am going to sell off all of this garbage army and go buy Space Marines or something... seriously... when my 275 point HQ monster gets obliterated by some bolters and one Aura of Decay hit before I even get to move him, it is time to move on...
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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-09-10, 05:52 PM
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Its sad to see you feel this way about daemons. Yes their not an easy to run but i think of them as a great army that you cant just field the standard marine style squads. Playing daemons you really have to put thought into how you write your lists, how you split, how you deploy and how you play. Failing that their is a coolness factor of seeing loads and loads of daemons burst from the warp and charge headlong against their foes even if you do get shot to bits before you clash sword and claw

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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-09-10, 09:07 PM
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Funny really... my friends would currently describe my daemon armies as some of the most broken in 40k. I suppose the big thing is whether or not you face mech armies or not: if you do then daemons arent going to do very well... if you dont then daemons should beat almost anything out there unless you get some serious bad luck (but playing daemons certainly opens the door for bad luck to come round and kick you in teh ass).

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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-09-10, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurce View Post
Is this the worst army right now, excluding Necrons? WH40k is an extremely random game and this army just adds droves and droves more randomness. You get to start out with only half of your army. You randomly don't even get the half you want. All of them randomly appear on the board, 2/3 of the time not even in the spot you want. You could very well not even get to play with the other half of your army. No amount of strategy you employ can overcome the amount of randomness this army possesses. There will be games where you feel unstoppable and other games where there is literally nothing you can do.

I think I just need a noob-friendly army, so I think I am going to sell off all of this garbage army and go buy Space Marines or something... seriously... when my 275 point HQ monster gets obliterated by some bolters and one Aura of Decay hit before I even get to move him, it is time to move on...

I wanted to play Chaos Daemons as my first army really bad, but under advisement of the owner of the local FLGS I started with Space Marines, learned how to play, etc....

Once I started playing Daemons I saw how they can require a little more experience than other armies, but I haven't been disappointed. Sure getting the wrong half of your army sucks, but making both halves the same or nearly identical can help that situation A LOT. Takes the "which half" die roll almost completely out of the picture. The only difference between my waves is usually which half gets the crushers and which half gets the daemon prince.

As far as them being the worst army? Not even close. I've placed 3rd and 4th with them in the last two rogue traders I played in, both were 20+ players. Once you get the hang of how to run them, they're extremely powerful. In a tournament setting Daemons have the advantage of ignoring any deployment rules in the scenario. That's huge. You control the board from the beginning of turn 1 most of the time.

I'd recommend just shelving them for awhile. Don't get rid of them, and come back in a couple months and give it a go again. I regularly cycle between Daemons/Witch Hunters/Raven Guard, keeps me from getting bored.

Currently Playing:
Warhammer 40k: Dark Eldar - Chaos Daemons - Sisters of Battle
Warmachine/Hordes: Retribution of Scyrah - Circle Orboros
Malifaux: Outcasts - Neverborn - Resurrectionists
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If war is ever lawful, then peace is sometimes sinful.
- C. S. Lewis

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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-09-10, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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It might by my love for the greater daemon HQ's. I personally think they all suck except for the GUO. Even then, he is mediocre at best. Bloodthirster is the most overpriced p.o.s. and his stats are all "win more" stats. He really is a pointless model, in my opinion. WS 10. Whoopie-ty-doo? anything that is relevant that you want to punch still need 4's to hit you. I just feel assaulting in this game is pretty stupid how it works. It doesn't make a lick of sense. i have TWICE your weapon skill, why do you still need average rolls to hit me?!

And I hate all of the troops except for the Pink Horrors. All the other ones range from sub-par to bad. You can never get Bloodletters in combat because one squad of rapid fire just eats them all because they don't have any armor. And I hate Plaguebearers so f'n much. I don't understand the point of paying 150 pts for a squad just to have them come in and stand there. Literally... that is all they do... stand there. Don't even get me started on Daemonettes.... T3 5+ save is just lol awful. I am fairly certain that there is probably only a very small handful of units that are worth anything in that codex and the rest are just complete garbage.
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-10-10, 03:11 AM
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Maybe adjust your playstyle? Plaguebearers are a house in CC, don't let them fool you. Having them stand around for the whole game is a waste, I agree. Ten plaguebearers on the charge are going to have twenty attacks, rerolling to wound most units in the game. T5 and FNP, and a 5+ invuln make them all that harder to kill. Charging them into a squad of marines pretty much just bogged down the marines for the rest of the game. And if it comes down to it, you're going to eventually win the war of attrition. Put an icon in their squad, and drop some bloodletters or a greater daemon on it, I guarantee you're going to win combat the subsequent turn.

As for the greater daemons, you just have to be careful how exposed you leave them. I usually use 1-2 Bloodthirsters as my HQ, depending on points. Effectively they have an 18" assault range, so keeping them behind a building, then jumping out onto whatever walks into that range works wonders. Leaving them in the open is suicide, I agree. Your opponents weak flank is the best place for a greater daemon, and then work him across your opponents forces.

If greater daemons aren't your style, I'd suggest a Herald of Tzeentch on a chariot, or a Herald of Khorne or Skulltaker on a juggernaut. Both are tough to kill, and are highly useful. Herald of Tzeentch can zoom around popping tanks or using breath of chaos on infantry, and you can put either Khorne heralds into a squad or two of bloodcrushers and they will be nearly impossible to kill.

Currently Playing:
Warhammer 40k: Dark Eldar - Chaos Daemons - Sisters of Battle
Warmachine/Hordes: Retribution of Scyrah - Circle Orboros
Malifaux: Outcasts - Neverborn - Resurrectionists
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If war is ever lawful, then peace is sometimes sinful.
- C. S. Lewis


Last edited by hijynx; 06-10-10 at 03:16 AM.
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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-10-10, 04:01 AM
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Sadly daemons are currently not for newer players, or even those that want to win at all costs (Honestly if you want a sure win then their not for you). Still for us power gaming jerks they are a perfect reason to take things easy, since if you lose its often not your fault so it really takes the edge of a match, and allows you to take it easy since losing more then you win with daemons often has nothing to do with the player. (Honestly I have had people start prancing around like gits when they beat my main army, since my retarded luck and broken lists are the testing grounds for most of my friends new lists.)


Medusa: "I'm a witch, its my job to blaspheme against Gods."

Two Slaanesh daemons on the first go...hmm I guess the fates have spoken emperors children here I come
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-10-10, 04:15 AM
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Daemons are a random army, nothing you can do about it. Investing in more disposable, redundant units is a good way to protect yourself from all but the worst luck.

Check out my Daemon guide, link's in the sig.

Starting with Daemons is going to be frustrating if you want a reliable tourney army, but they're a lot of fun if you can get past the randomness.

I'd keep them around as a fun project or to use in Fantasy (totally awesome in that system). For competitive play, not much they can do unless you use a really optimized list and get lucky.

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Daemon Guide, Necron Guide

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-10-10, 03:33 PM
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no this is not the worst army right now. Daemons are hard to play and are not really for beginners. Took me a lot of games to get good with them. Don't get me wrong this army does require more luck than any other but when it goes your way daemons simply wreck face. I do agree ith hijinx though just shelf them for now and start a new army and switch when you get bored. I have chaos ( of both types ) and tyranids.

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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-10-10, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Still for us power gaming jerks they are a perfect reason to take things easy, since if you lose its often not your fault so it really takes the edge of a match, and allows you to take it easy since losing more then you win with daemons often has nothing to do with the player.
I am not a casual player by any means. Me and a guy who travels to tournaments and stuff go through codexes constantly to find hidden synergies and what-not. Him, and everybody else I play with up here, conclude that the daemon codex feels very rushed and pretty weak and subpar and perhaps only about half of your games you get to use actual strategy to try and win. The other half is just pure random luck because of way the army is setup with Daemonic Assault.

I will be the first to admit that I am just letting a couple of bad games influence my decision, but this army has screwed me so much it is becoming unbearable. Just really stupid that I only get to start out with half of my army, and a 1/3 of the time not even the half that I want. My opponent just gets an entire free turn of shooting at all of my stuff. My stuff will randomly just explode before I even get to do anything with them. And even when they do get in combat, they aren't very good at it. I don't even really get to position the stuff in the place that I want until turn 2+. And even then, I am limited by a 6" radius around a guy with an icon.

This was a list that I played last Tuesday (trying to recall off the top of my head):

1 Bloodthirster UH + BotBG
1 Skulltaker + Juggernaut
4 squads of 5 Pink Horrors (1 pink horror in each squad with bolt and one squad had changeling)
2 Soul Grinders (both Phlegm)
16 or 18 or so bloodletters with Chaos Icon

I don't quite remember the list and I dont have my codex on hand.

played against chaos space marines the first round. he had a slaanesh daemon prince with warp time (the most amazing psychic power in 40k right now?) and a nurgle deamon prince with "the good aura of decay". i brought in both grinders, bloodthrister, and bloodletters with skulltaker first turn. he has this devastator squad ( i cant remember name of the chaos marine equivalent) with 4 assault cannons (havoc guns? or something like that? its the chaos marine equivalent) just sitting on the edge of some area terrain all the way in the back and those two big ass deamons right in the middle. so, i put my bloodthirster down and it scatters some ridiculous number towards that havoc squad. his havoc squad unloads into the bloodthrister and deals 4 wounds. i fail 3. yeah... read that <-----

nurgle deamon prince walks up to bloodthirster. aura of decay. rolls a 6 on the wound and i roll a 2 on the save. 275 points. gone. didn't even get to move it. and this shit happens A LOT. i got a friend who plays Dark Eldar. everytime Bloodthirster hits the board, he just unloads 12 dark lances into him and he dies. every frikkin' time. and then what pisses me off, is i can dump a salvo of 60 warp fire shots into a squad of marines, somehow be so awesome as to deal only 11 wounds, and then he saves all except for 1. MEQ armor is so amazing against me, but when i get it, it fails everytime. -_-

2nd round, i got the wrong half to come in against a Tau player. i did not see another unit come out of reserve until turn 4. so i just quit. army is so dumb...

I'll tell you what: Give me a competitive 1500, 1750, and/or 2000 pt list that you play.

Last edited by Kurce; 06-10-10 at 08:55 PM.
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