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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-29-14, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
Skar'lakor sounds like it should be on tatooine and takes 1000s of years to devour its enemies
which in NO way make it less cool
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-29-14, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by otasolgryn View Post
which in NO way make it less cool
Apart from the Sarlacc looking like an anus.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-30-14, 12:08 AM
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Do you think mono-god builds can be viable in competitive setting?
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-30-14, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Yes or no... depending on whether you count unmarked Be'lakor as a violation of mono-God or not.

Tzeentch, yes. Fateweaver, Screamers, Lords of Change, all very well and good. Fateweaver + Be'lakor is a combo that I'll not stop gushing about for a while, I think. High skill-cap, high points cost, low stats (9 T5 Wounds in that 650 points, there), but excellent defense buffs: extremely frustrating for opponents.

Slaanesh, yes. Telepathy spam, fast movers, Rending galore. Better with Be'lakor, since you need that Armorbane for higher AV enemies. Best AA, with Slaaneshi Lash Princes.

Nurgle, yes, and no need for Be'lakor, actually. Since the Princes all already have a 2+ cover save... you need to build it around your lack of mobility, though: something like the list I posted, or a multi-Soul Grinder list for some heavy pounding.

Khorne is... tough. Skarbrand works better with Slaanesh than with his native Khornate fellows, and Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers are rather lackluster. Hounds are pretty ace, though, and Karanak buffs Bloodletters to the degree that I wouldn't be ashamed to run them. You can run multiple Bloodthirsters, Be'lakor, and cheap melee-smash dual specialist weapon DPs for a real Shrouding-star of 2+ cover FMCspam, if you like, but that's about the closest you'll get to competitive with Khorne.

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Last edited by Mossy Toes; 10-30-14 at 09:12 AM.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-31-14, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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All right, I've posted lists that are almost mono-God lists for the other three, so... Might as well go Khorne, too. Fudging it a bit with cheap Nurglings, but... ah, they'll do.

Shadowstar Bloodcircus
1850 points, Daemons CAD with CSM Allied.

290 - Bloodthirster (Warlord) w/ 2x Greater Reward
280 - Bloodthirster w/ Greater Reward, Lesser Reward

45 - 3x Nurglings Bases
45 - 3x Nurglings Bases

270 - Daemon Prince of Khorne w/ flight, armor, 2x Greater Reward, Lesser Reward
270 - Daemon Prince of Khorne w/ flight, armor, 2x Greater Reward, Lesser Reward
250 - Daemon Prince of Khorne w/ flight, armor,Greater Reward, Lesser Reward


Allied CSM

350 - Be'lakor

50- 10x Cultists


_____________

The key component of this list is the T1 Shrouding by Be'lakor on all the Gliding FMCs, so they can get their 2+ jinks. I might try to cast Invisibility or Psy Shriek first if I roll high on the number of WC I get, to sucker out my opponent's dispel dice.

The second combo that actually makes the list quite threatening is the dual-wielding Specialist Weapons you can swap Rewards for. A few things to keep in mind:
- You can swap one of each level of Reward.
- Each Reward weapon is a Spec Weapon, so swap 2, and you get the +1 attack.
- The "Blade of Blood" Khornate Greater Reward gives the bearer Rampage: that does not depend on actually being to gain that rule. So you can still use, say, an Etherblade or Bloodthirster-native Axe of Khorne.
- The Bloodthirster's Axe of Khorne doesn't count as swapping for a Lesser Reward, so you can take an Etherblade there for a mere +1 attack & mastercrafted, if you like. Say, on the second BT who I couldn't afford 2 GRs on.
- A Prince or BT rolling some crappy Greater Reward like armor they already have can swap for the Blade of Blood, but can keep the good ones like 4+ FNP, +1 W & IWND, or Armorbane/Fleshbane.

What can we draw from this?

- Almost all of my MCs will have Rampage (and will be almost always outnumbered) and 2 specialist weapons, the one they're using being mastercrafted. + 2 to 4 attacks per assault phase? WS 9 or 10, rerolling one miss? Yes please!

Considering dropping the second BT for Skarbrand, which would let me buy another GR for the 3rd Prince. Also Rage and Hatred on these super high I characters who'll often be assaulting? That's worth an unreliable DS, I think...

Naming Convention - Shadowstar for most Shrouding-based clusters, since having to stay within 6" of Be'lakor is similar to being a Deathstar, I think--just able to calve off into different assaults more easily. Bloodcircus because, hey, it's a Khornate Flying Circus. Puts you in a mind of the last level of Psychonauts, with the Meat Circus and all...

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Last edited by Mossy Toes; 11-01-14 at 12:01 AM.
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-14, 03:23 AM
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Mossy, if you were to construct the cheesiest, most game breaking, friendship ending daemons list, with everything at your disposal.. What would it look like?
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-14, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I don't have Zarakynel in-house, so no 3++ to boost to 2++ with ease there, with Cursed Earth or whatnot.

The thing that I find about these lists... is I'm really min-maxing them for maximum effect already. I couldn't really see how to break the system any more than, say, a unit of invisible Screamers with a 2+ rerollable cover save. I had those eat a turn of Tau shooting, most of my opponent's army, at 1500 points and lose a single model. And that was against two squads of Missilesides. Similar to the 2+ cover 3+ armor Invisible bikers who soaked up 6 Wave Serpents, 2 squads of Fire Dragons, and 4 squads of Dire Avengers and took only a single unsaved wound.

These lists are about as competitive as I can go, I think, with my minis I have. Were I to hypothetically start bringing in Forge World by the bushel, I might ally in some Sicarans, bring some Rapiers, take Zarakynel... I don't know.

The thing about these lists is that rather than spamming underpriced, overpowered units... they generally rely on the complex interplay of synergies to get to be the most effective. Fateweaver, Be'lakor, and the Screamers (plus whatever else supporting) work together to form a power block on the table. My Outflanking Daemonettes w/ Herald are pretty vulnerable unless I can throw Grimoire (rerolling with Fatey) or Invisibility on them as they come on. And so on. The Chariot of Tzeentch can put out some serious pain, but needs real defensive buffs to stay alive. But the synergies rely on unique units and harder-to-find HQ slots: You can't very well take a second Be'lakor or Fateweaver!

I suppose if you had the points, you could try to duplicate some of the more effective units on offer, here: the outflanking Herald+Daemonettes, the Screamers, and take 3 Soul Grinders (some of the most independently hard-as-nails units in my lists)... but screamers are best at anti-tank, Daemonettes are best anti-infantry, Soul Grinders are vulnerable to hordes... they all have their plusses and minus that, in a limited-point-list, should be balanced against each other.

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Last edited by Mossy Toes; 11-21-14 at 06:16 AM.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-14, 06:32 AM
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not sure if I should post this in your list thread, but I was thinking of a list that looked something along the lines of:
(partly stolen from Kevin Rogers)

Main Detachment:

Fateweaver

Herald of Tzeentch, ML3, Disk, Exalted Reward (Grimoir)
Herald of Tzeentch, ML3, Disk

Herald of Khorne, Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath, Greater reward, lesser reward


11 Horrors
11 Horrors


7 Screamers (to go with Tzeralds)
12 Flesh Hounds (to join Kherald)


Allies CSM:

Be'lakor

10 Cultists

Baledrake.



This puts me up to about 1860pts (need to cut 10 somewhere)

How do you think this will perform in a tournament setting? (eternal war missions)
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-14, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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Well, combining Screamerstar with Fate'lakor would certainly do it! That particular combo had slipped my mind, honestly... though strictly speaking, I don't have the disc-Heralds for it (quick conversion though they would be).

For maximum competitiveness, I'd consider dropping the Kherald, one squad of Horrors, and the Hounds in favor of a second squad of Screamers, a Slherald on Steed (w/ Greater Ether and Beguilement), and a bunch of Daemonettes being outflanked by it. While I love the Kherald-Hound block, it's not that great against heavy armor, and you don't have quite as many hounds there as I might like, by personal taste.

The Screamerstar doesn't need much in the way of protection that Be'lakor can offer, like the rerollable 2+ cover or Invisibility, so it can do its own tank-hunting thing or whatnot... while Be'lakor buffs the second squad of Screamers. If you fail to roll Cursed Earth or Forewarning... the Star can stick close to Be'lakor as a fallback. Losing a Horror squad doesn't hurt your Warp Charge bank too badly, since you're still sitting on 15+D6 per turn; you already have two backfield objective holders in your Horrors Unit 1 and Cultists, and you're gaining another forward melee unit in the Daemonettes.

What you lose in horde-killiness from the loss of the Hounds you're gaining back in the Outflankable Daemonettes, and your anti-Tank is getting massively buffed with that much more Screamer Armorbane--enough that you might actually be able to handle several Knights in an opposing list! (which I don't know if you can expect in your local meta, but should certainly expect to see on the field in competitive play in general)

Hmm. Not much in the way of anti-air. I might be tempted to swap the Baledrake for a HACdrake or a HAC FF, both of which can benefit from Fateweaver's guaranteed shot at Prescience.

Or if you want to sacrifice any shot at contesting the AA field, you could swap it for a Maulerfiend for yet another rapid-moving high-threat anti-tank option... though 2 blocks of Screamers and Be'lakor might have anti-tank that well in hand, honestly. Still, against Wave Serpent Spam or massed Knights, you certainly wouldn't regret bringing the fellow. Just make sure he's Invisible before you throw him at an I4 Knight with his I3... (and preferably Prescience'd for a better shot at all hits, so an extra free melta hit with your magma cutters). Plus, hey, another 50-odd points to play with...

All in all, though: near-unmatched mobility, survivability, psychic power, and anti-tank, with solid hitting power otherwise. All only at the cost of relatively few and pricey units--a fair trade-off, all told, I think.

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!

Last edited by Mossy Toes; 11-21-14 at 07:22 AM.
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-21-14, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Let's mock that up, shall we?

Main Detachment Daemons:

Fateweaver (Warlord)

Herald of Tzeentch, ML3, Disk, Exalted Reward (Grimoire)
Herald of Tzeentch, ML3, Disk, Exalted Reward (Portalglyph)
Herald of Slaanesh, Steed, Exalted Locus of Beguilement, Greater Reward (Greater Etherblade)

11 Horrors
19 Daemonettes


6 Screamers (to go with Tzeralds)
6 Screamers (stick with Be'lakor)


Allied CSM:

Be'lakor

10 Cultists

HACdrake



I decided to include the HACdrake rather than Maulerfiend on the risk of running afoul of a Tyranid list or something with relatively few vehicles but a bunch of flyers (protecting Be'lakor from Flyrants is hell, those games--they can sure force you to make enough 2+ saves to lose the fellow unless you burn Invisibility to keep him alive... and succeed in casting it and not getting denied); meanwhile, decided to throw on a Portalglyph for some chance at free backfield scoring units to pester the opponent and help you out with Warp Charge generation.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing more competitive Nid lists podding in Dakkafexes supported by heavy Skyblight or dual Flyrant support, with all the new Nid MCs and the return of the mycetic spore-alike, so...

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!

Last edited by Mossy Toes; 11-21-14 at 07:33 AM.
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