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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-08-14, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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Default Utilising Daemons w/ CSM

Now I figured I'd post this here in the Daemons section, as that is the part I am new to. I have purchased a rather large Daemons army, this includes:

FW GUO (Scabeiathrax)
FW Bloodthrister (Angrath)
LoC
2x The Masque
Skulltaker (plus another I already have)
Herald of Slaanesh on steed
2x HoTz on disk
HoTz on foot
HoNurg
Karanak
9x Fiends of S
8x Bloodcrushers
17 Flamers
49 Horrors
32 Bloodletters (plus 20 I already have)
28 Daemonettes
15 Plaguebearers
4 nurgling bases
8 Flesh hounds
8 screamers
10 Seekers
2 Soul grinders
a Plague hulk
2x D Princes of nurgle
D Prince of Slaanesh
an unbuilt D Prince
plus extra disk, juggernaught and karanak again.

What can I possibly do with this? I know there are a lot of options so I'll boil it down.

I use CSM as my primary force with Crimson Slaughter rules and have Nurgle and Slaanesh marines primarily. I Was hoping for a Daemon detachment of Khorne/Tz but came across all 4 gods, which is cool and it opens up my army even wider. So I ask again, what can I possibly do with all this gear to make my Chaos force nigh unstoppable?

Cheers Heretics!

The true nature of Chaos is beyond any comprehension. No mere mortal can ever hope to understand these matters, and the wise do not puzzle too deeply over Chaos Gods, or try to fathom their wars, rivalries and bickerings.


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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-09-14, 11:01 AM
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Quoting not quite in order because I'm replying in a feverish haze as I see units and thoughts occur to me.

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Originally Posted by whittsy View Post
2x The Masque
Consider chopping the "drama mask" hand off of one of these to stick a book in her hand: you should be fielding a Herald with Grimoire pretty often.

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Originally Posted by whittsy View Post
Herald of Slaanesh on steed
Excellent. Excellent. Give a Greater Reward for a Greater Etherblade, plus Beguilement, and you can outflank-with-acute-senses a Daemonette squad that will always be rerolling to hit; assassinating characters in combat; etc.

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2x HoTz on disk
Looks like somebody was playing Screamerstar before they sold you this list...

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Karanak
Oh man, this guy got great with psychic test changes in 7e. Any doubles within 12" is a perils? Don't have to tell me twice! People tend to autopilot put him into Hound squads, which I disagree with. Throw him in Bloodletters, where his DTW bonus matters! And who he can Scout 6" closer to the enemy, so that with a Banner of Blood, can almost certainly get an assault off against the enemy T2! And whose banner can serve as a no-scatter zone to bring in Skarbrand!

That... might be one of my favorite synergies in the Daemons book, there, so long as you have a Grimoire or Invisibility to make Skarbrand tough enough to survive the enemy shooting the turn after he comes in. And, well, a bunch of high-Initiative Slaaneshi units in his rage-bubble getting the assault and getting to strike first the turn that he comes in, for Hatred-Rage I5 attacks everywhere.

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9x Fiends of S
You might field 3 of these, if you want to assault a unit in cover with another unit and need to strike simultaneously, and also want to soak up enemy Overwatch? More likely just summonable material for Incursion.


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8x Bloodcrushers
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plus extra disk, juggernaught
Oooh, stick 2 Horrors on the disc to be Blue Scribes and one Skulltaker on the Jugger, then. I would basically only consider fielding Skulltaker on a Juggernaut--otherwise, not enough return on his Eternal Warrior on a 2 wound mini (lack of AP2 being his only downside compared to the many upsides vs a normal Kherald on Juggernaut with Greater Etherblade). The Blue Scribes, though, with this edition's psychic tests, and rolling on Daemonology? Free WC3 powers, no test required (though perhaps a Fateweaver reroll so as not to be stuck with the heavy flamer)? Yes please!

...speaking of which, you're gonna have to get or convert yourself* a Fateweaver. That Warlord Trait, plus a reroll of a D6 per turn, is invaluable. Or, well, definitely worth 300 points, then. As for what he does... he's kind of limited to a Bolt of Change beam wreaking havoc across the board while swooping, but the rerolls are what you take him for.

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8 Flesh hounds
Not enough. More. You want at least 20 or 30, for ideal list-building purposes. I mean, I could understand saying "I have enough minis and want to play with what I have," but... if you want to bring this unit (and T1 assaults are great, after scouting if you go second, so who wouldn't?) you need more of these guys. They also make a great retinue for a JuggerHerald with a Greater Reward and Abjuration (yaaay, 3+ Deny the Witch!) or a JuggerSkulltaker.

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10 Seekers
MORE!

Ok, you only need 15 or 20 max for one squad, because while these guys are cheap and fast and killy... they are just as fragile as Daemonettes, and so opponents tend to focus-fire them like nothing else. They need some more bodies and to have Grimoire or Invisibility thrown on them to have a good chance of reaching the enemy more or less intact.

Can also Outflank with that unit of Daemonettes led by a Herald on a Steed for a serious Outflanking contingent. Show up T2, let the enemy shoot for a turn, then assault on T3 for all you got.

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2 Soul grinders
MUAHAAHAHA!

Ahem. Soul Grinders are dead tough, this edition. Basically the only thing that can sneer in their direction is an Imperial Knight, with his D-weapon CC attacks and chance to auto-Explode any tank with Stomps. AV 13, 4 HP, and a good shot at a 2+ cover save? Yes please!

Speaking of which, very much consider how you're going to take on Imperial Knights. A squad of 20 Plaguebearers with Invisiblity and Prescience cast on them to tarpit it and touch-of-rust it to death? An Armorbane S7 fellow like Be'lakor or Skarbrand o get in there and tear things up? Screamers with their S5 Armorbane trying to get through AV13 (don't count on it)? Warp Gaze from a Soul Grinder (with Prescience, to have a good shot at hitting) pincered with D3 S9 shots from a Burning Chariot, to force the Ion Shield invuln to only be able to protect against one of those? You have to burn through a potential 6 AV 13 4+ invuln hull points, so... you'd better have a game plan or else a Knight will wreck your army (and your day), now that you no longer have access to a melta-spam army.

3 Nurglings are the new Cultists--a few points cheaper and essentially Fearless, to boot! Good that you have those.

Definitely consider building and painting that unbuilt DP as Be'lakor. Or Skarbrand. My whole game-plan for Daemons these days is basically to field 2 out of 3 of the following: Be'lakor, Fateweaver, and/or Skarbrand, then building the rest of the list to synergize around those characters. Unfortunate, then, that you don't have any of the 3 best characters in the Daemons book...

It's late/early enough that I can definitely tell that I'm in the manic state of fatigue (generally hits me around 2:30 am--well, would you look at the time), so as much fun as I am having with this random scattershot of ideas about the Daemons dex and the various units available--I think I leave off here. Have fun experimenting with all of your new units! And don't worry, you're supposed to be removing dozens of troops minis per enemy shooting phase. A 5++ T3 melee horde army basically guarantees that, unless you go for many expensive MCs and/or Daemon Engines.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-12-14, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Far too much to quote @Mossy Toes , but I thank you for your help all the same. Extremely useful as always. I got my package yesterday, holy shit yesterday was like my birthday, I got home to my daemons army AND i got my new car yesterday AS WELL! ahem.... The daemons are all there basically. There's a 3rd soul grinder which is cool, what isn't cool is all 3 of them are in pieces and I have no instructions, and by pieces I mean, glued together and have fallen apart at glue joints rather badly. There wasn't an unbuilt prince which is a shame, but I do have a $30 GW gift card from my actual birthday I can use to get one, so that's a bonus. What I did get though was the C'tan Shard of the Deceiver model and I have NO idea what the hell to do with that, obviously a Daemon Prince but..... Ugh, I dunno. Anyway....

What the plan is now is to wait on my brother to give me a points limit in a game he wants to play the daemons in. When I find that out, I'll throw up an army list and have the heretics pick it to pieces and give him some pain!.

The true nature of Chaos is beyond any comprehension. No mere mortal can ever hope to understand these matters, and the wise do not puzzle too deeply over Chaos Gods, or try to fathom their wars, rivalries and bickerings.


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-13-14, 04:02 AM
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There's a 3rd soul grinder which is cool, what isn't cool is all 3 of them are in pieces and I have no instructions, and by pieces I mean, glued together and have fallen apart at glue joints rather badly. There wasn't an unbuilt prince which is a shame,
Honestly, I'd take that tradeoff. A third much cheaper (pointswise) Heavy Support choice that's honestly more durable, and will be able to crunch most things (less a Knight or a fearless infantry blob) about as easily.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-14-14, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Honestly, I'd take that tradeoff. A third much cheaper (pointswise) Heavy Support choice that's honestly more durable, and will be able to crunch most things (less a Knight or a fearless infantry blob) about as easily.
This is pretty much how I felt too. Nothing wrong with more skyfire / Phlegm bombs! Anyway, instead of starting a new thread I figured I'd put up a list for a game I'm playing against my loyalist brother scum. 3000 points and allowed 1 LoW.

HQ

Warlord: Lord of Change: lvl3 psyker, Staff of Change, extra great reward - 295

An'ggrath the Unbound: Fearsome, Daemonic Armour, Living Icon, Flight, Blood Frenzy, Rage of Khorne, Axe of Khorne - 888
Its fitting its in this colour, pretty much this guy has WS10 S10 and 7+D3Attacks on the charge, with any 6s to hit making extra attacks, plus hes a GMC with a 2+/4++, HQ and LoW option. He's my knight killer.

HoT: disk, lvl3 psyker, grimoire of true names - 150

HoS: Steed, Greater Etherblade, Beguilement, lvl2 psyker - 130

HoN: Balesword, Fecundity - 90

Troops

12 Horrors - 108

12 Horrors - 108

20 Bloodletters - 200

15 Plague Bearers - 135

20 Daemonettes: Alluress w/ Greater Etherblade - 205

Elites

5 Fiends of Slaanesh - 175

Fast

7xScreamers - 175

Heavy

2x Soul Grinders: Phlegm Bombardment, DoT - 170 each

Totals 2999 points. This is the first Daemons list I've made (probably shows), but here's my ideas.

All Psykers on Malefic powers bar the HoS who tries to get invisibility. The Horrors are purely there to attempt to summon A) more Horrors, B) more Bloodletters and C) Bloodcrushers / Seekers / Flesh Hounds and just send them in. LoC pretty much same thing but hopefully will have scorched earth to cast as buffs on An'ggrath and his bloodletters. Not sure what the Nurgle guys will do (maybe hold an objective?) Soul Grinders sit back and blast air/marines.

The HoS outflanks with Daemonettes and hopefully, if luck is on my side (and the Dark Gods of course) the Fiends too. Something tells me he won't be expecting 6 fast movers in his deployment and 20 Daemonettes ready to wreck shit. HoS can leave the daemonettes once touched down and can join the Fiends hence why I gave the Daemonettes an Alluress and a GEB.

HoT on disk joins the Screamers for some support, he can buff with the Grimoire and hopefully raise some more Daemons to the cause.

Let me know. Cheers.

The true nature of Chaos is beyond any comprehension. No mere mortal can ever hope to understand these matters, and the wise do not puzzle too deeply over Chaos Gods, or try to fathom their wars, rivalries and bickerings.


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I'd drop a Horror and a Bloodletter to upgrade those Soul Grinders to DoN. And be forewarned: though a blob of daemonettes seems intimidating, they vanish to enemy shooting fast.

I would drop whatever you need to in order to put Karanak in those Bloodletters: to Scout them forward, to give them great anti-psyker defense and offence--even to sprint him to the front of the unit when you're about to assault for those extra few inches of range. He has no AP or rending, so he's not too impressive against a hardened target, sure, but... in terms of synergy and anti-psychic capability, he's worth it for that alone. (That I stick him in a squad with a banner to lock down Skarbrand's DSing for no scatter, myself, is just another plus).

I'd say to get those points... start with dropping 2 of the Fiends and the other 12th Horror, then... probably the Alluress w/ Etherblade (she's a tempting squad leader, but I find my Alluresses tend to get squeezed out in the list-making process)... hmm. Maybe also a Screamer?

I'd also go for dropping the bonus ML from the Warlord in favor of a second Greater Reward. The survivability they can offer is unparalleled.

Looks pretty good and fast, though! If you weren't spending quite so many points on An'ggrath (say, were fielding Skarbrand instead) I'd advise you also take a winged Slaaneshi DP for the better anti-air (with a Lash and a shot at Iron Arm), but as is... looks fine!

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-15-14, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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HQ

Warlord: Lord of Change: lvl3 psyker, Staff of Change, extra great reward - 295

An'ggrath the Unbound: Fearsome, Daemonic Armour, Living Icon, Flight, Blood Frenzy, Rage of Khorne, Axe of Khorne - 888
Its fitting its in this colour, pretty much this guy has WS10 S10 and 7+D3Attacks on the charge, with any 6s to hit making extra attacks, plus hes a GMC with a 2+/4++, HQ and LoW option. He's my knight killer.

HoT: disk, lvl3 psyker, grimoire of true names - 150

HoS: Steed, Greater Etherblade, Beguilement, lvl2 psyker - 130

HoN: Balesword, Fecundity - 90

Karanak - 120

Troops

11 Horrors - 99

11 Horrors - 99

20 Bloodletters - 200

15 Plague Bearers - 135

20 Daemonettes - 180

Elites
3 Fiends of Slaanesh - 105

Fast

6xScreamers - 150

Heavy

2x Soul Grinders: Phlegm Bombardment, DoN - 180 each

Coming in at now, 3001 points.

Quote:
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I'd drop a Horror and a Bloodletter to upgrade those Soul Grinders to DoN. And be forewarned: though a blob of daemonettes seems intimidating, they vanish to enemy shooting fast.

I would drop whatever you need to in order to put Karanak in those Bloodletters: to Scout them forward, to give them great anti-psyker defense and offence--even to sprint him to the front of the unit when you're about to assault for those extra few inches of range. He has no AP or rending, so he's not too impressive against a hardened target, sure, but... in terms of synergy and anti-psychic capability, he's worth it for that alone. (That I stick him in a squad with a banner to lock down Skarbrand's DSing for no scatter, myself, is just another plus).

I'd say to get those points... start with dropping 2 of the Fiends and the other 12th Horror, then... probably the Alluress w/ Etherblade (she's a tempting squad leader, but I find my Alluresses tend to get squeezed out in the list-making process)... hmm. Maybe also a Screamer?

I'd also go for dropping the bonus ML from the Warlord in favor of a second Greater Reward. The survivability they can offer is unparalleled.

Looks pretty good and fast, though! If you weren't spending quite so many points on An'ggrath (say, were fielding Skarbrand instead) I'd advise you also take a winged Slaaneshi DP for the better anti-air (with a Lash and a shot at Iron Arm), but as is... looks fine!
As suggested, dropped some models and squeezed in Karanak. I would drop the 3rd level off the LoC but I really need as many chances as I can get at getting as many summoning spells as I can. I have a lot of spare models and wish to summon them onto the board. My brother wants an "Apocalypse" feel, and I'm gonna bring it!

The true nature of Chaos is beyond any comprehension. No mere mortal can ever hope to understand these matters, and the wise do not puzzle too deeply over Chaos Gods, or try to fathom their wars, rivalries and bickerings.


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Last edited by whittsy; 09-16-14 at 12:27 AM.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-15-14, 12:26 PM
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Well, anything for the feel. I honestly think, given how many warp charge you need to pour into summoning spells that, without CSM DPs with spell familiars rolling 4 or 5 dice, summoning spells often aren't as effective or game-turning as a well-placed Invisibility or Iron Arm. Still, they can definitely be fun! Decide whether you'd rather summon Bloodcrushers or Fiends; Horrors for warp charge escalation or Daemonettes for shredding...

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-16-14, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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I think if I spend the first turn summoning Horrors (maybe 2 squads) that will be beneficial enough for turn 2 to start summoning Bloodcrushers. I think my HoS will go 2 levels in Telepathy, giving him Psychic Shriek and a chance at Invisibility and whatever else, seeing as that squad will probably be away from support. But I agree, I will need a small degree of luck on my side. Hopefully the Dark, and Dice Gods are smiling on me. If not, I may need to borrow someone's child to sacrifice...

The true nature of Chaos is beyond any comprehension. No mere mortal can ever hope to understand these matters, and the wise do not puzzle too deeply over Chaos Gods, or try to fathom their wars, rivalries and bickerings.


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