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post #1 of 4 (permalink) Old 09-03-14, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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This started as an absurd joke list (and props to you if you recognize the title quote), and I hate relying on any single roll of the dice to swing me a game, but...

Some context, if you will.

Last game of 40k I played was the first in which I tried out the Black Legion's Hand of Darkness. My Lord successfully weathered a Daemon Prince's attacks (brought down to one wound), then popped him on the chin with the Hand to successfully make double his points back (and conveniently rolled a Boon to restore his wounds), then went on to get mired in combat against 3 Termis and 5 CSM, only able to kill one per assault phase max. Still, he did me proud, and had me considering about the viability of the Hand of Darkness as a one-shot killer against nasty monstrosities. I mean, with Spineshiver Blade or MoS, he's high enough Initiative he strikes before a Wraithknight. The only problem is ensuring he gets his 2/3 chance to hit reliably...

So why not, I figured, build a list around ensuring that my Lord gets to swing the Hand of Dark against his opponents, singling out the most threatening single model on the board? At worst, he's going to be using it like a Meltabomb against an Imperial Knight; at best, he'll be one-shotting Princes, Carnifexes, Wraightknights and anything without Eternal Warrior with relative ease. You just have to give him a reliable mechanism and a reliable mechanism for hitting with his swing, for getting to his opponent without getting shot to bits. Oh yeah, and some sort of power weapon would be nice, to keep from getting bogged down against chaff, again, since that's gonna happen (and the HoD isn't a specialist weapon, so a lightning claw is sub-optimal).

For this I turn to my regular wingmen Be'lakor and Fateweaver, who are naturally put off by no longer being the center of attention all the time, but don't mind letting somebody else shine for a little bit. Be'lakor can cast Invisibility on my one-man Deathstar, and Fateweaver can Prescience him--also rerolling essential D6s like a 1 to wound or a vital failed psychic test (to say nothing of making some nice Warp Storms go on). Invisibility should hopefully save him against Imperial Knights to let off a few meltabomb hits, from Daemon Princes trying to reap his tally before he strikes, and enemy shooting.

So we have a Hand of Darkness Back Legion Lord who has to have I6 at least, to strike before Wraithknights. He's in an allied contingent if we want Fatey, and I refuse to take Fatey as a non-Warlord... though any Tzeentchi Daemon or Balestar Sorc would really do, but I like these advantages, so I'm sticking with allied Black Legion. That means no Noise Marine troops. As I see it, we can build this Lord 3 ways:

175 - Lord in Termi armor w/ power sword, Hand of Darkness (replacing his combi-bolter), VotLW, and Mark of Slaanesh. Relatively cheap, unless you also want to take what's left of Ker'ngar along for the ride too. I can also use my Abaddon model for this guy because, hey, Termi with fist thing and sword, and I have a kitbash of the HH Abby mini converted to 40k, anyways.

270 - Lord w/ VotLW, MoN, Palanquin, Hand of Darkness, Skull of Ker'ngar, Spineshiver Blade, and SoC. The one-man deathstar; an immovable rock with T5 W5 I6, Eternal Warrior, Adamantium Will, and a choice between an Instant Death-causing super-attack or bucketloads of AP3 melee attacks. Expensive as hell and slow as a glacier, but anything he touches, dies.

195 - Lord w/ VotLW, SoC, bike, Hand of Darkness, and Spineshiver Blade. Kind of the halfway point between cost and survivability/damage output, but far and away the fastest Lord. Still T5 with a 4++ This guy could join Bikers to add more melta and meltabombs to take out AV14 and 13 more reliably, and most reliably get where he wants to go. The Spineshiver Blade here takes the place of both power sword and MoS on the original Lord (though the cost of the sword is tied into his Termi Armor, there), but gets a bonus +D6 attacks for his troubles if he choses to use the Blade over the Hand. Again, Ker'ngar is an option, but with 3 Wounds rather than 5, I dunno if it's cost-effective... to make the lynchpin of my force that much tougher. Ok, yeah, it probably is, if I don't have to cut off something painful to fit the points into the list. If you want a Marked Juggerlord or something... treat yourself, but it's your points.

As for retinue, you're probably best off with a bucketload of Cultists--they make good fodder for enemy shooting (especially while Invisible), you don't have to buy them VotLW, and their attacks should heap onto the Lord's to help clear out enemy attempts at roadblocks. Honestly, throw enough 3-attack-on-the-charge (plus pistol in shooting pre-charge) cultists at a problem, and you should end up getting a decent number of wounds through. Unless you're bringing the fast Lord, there, in which case Bikers are probably a better bet than Spawn, for the meltabombs. Bikers can also Jink within Be'lakor's Shrouded bubble for a 2+ cover save.

Ew. 2+ cover unit (on bikes) hit only on 6s in shooting and melee, led by an absolute monster of a Melee Lord who can one-shot anything you throw at him (with Prescience and Fateweavers reroll)? That's about as reliable and unkillable as you can get. Unless you throw Lysander at him, with a 3++ invuln and Eternal Warrior, or something.

Ahem. In conclusion, the list. I'll go with Biker Hand of Darkness Lord here, since the synergy with Be'lakor has convinced me over the course of writing this whole diatribe. Also that makes his modus operandi pretty "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am," and the more cheesy one-liners I can fit into this rambling foolishness, the better.





TL;DR: to squeeze this idea into a mere 1500 points, I would bring the following:

Main Detachment:

300 - Fateweaver
350 - Be'Lakor

45 - 3x Nurgling Bases
45 - 3x Nurgling Bases

150 - 6x Screamers


Allies:

235 - Lord w/ VotLW, SoC, bike, Hand of Darkness, Skull of Ker'ngar and Spineshiver Blade.

58 - 12x Cultists

140 - 5x Bikers w/ 2x melta, VotLW & Champ w/ meltabombs

175 - Forgefiend w/ 2x HAC


There are some on-the-fly alterations to this list, and some expenditures with spare points. The Forgefiend I threw in for some more anti-Wave Serpent, which will be predominant on the competitive scene, I figure. I added the Screamers for another unit with a 2+ rerollable cover save (when hugging Be'lakor's Shrouding bubble) and access to Armorbane attacks.

I had 15 points to spare after adding Ker'ngar to the Lord, so I opted for a MoT, too, for the 3++ invuln; why not, it's better than another base of Nurglings. It fits with Fatey and the Screamers, to boot. I felt bad about sacrificing Horrors (great Warp Charge batteries) for Nurglings, but managed the squeeze in order to get 5 bikers in there.

If I were running this at 1750, I'd probably bring another Daemon Prince (heavy support) with a Grimoire (or 2 Horror Squads and a Grimoire Tzherald, perhaps, in another force org chart), and if possible a Burning Chariot for the versatile damage output (coupled with that Fateweaver'd Grimoire's defensive boost to make it survivable enough).

So. I realize this is an idea-dense wordspew to pick through, but I welcome your guys' thoughts and opinions on the matter. I imagine @mayegelt will advocate that I drop into full Unbound mode, since these troops and lack of Grimoire aren't doing more than slowing me down, but I am considering running this list in a 1500 point Battle-Forged tourney (hence my initial 1500 limtation). But I would welcome seeing what somebody would do with this if it were Unbound, and at other points levels.

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!

Last edited by Mossy Toes; 09-16-14 at 07:30 PM.
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post #2 of 4 (permalink) Old 09-16-14, 03:48 PM
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That bike lord is about as good as you could make him. I'd consider a jet bike just for shenanigans or maybe a crucible of lies to go with his 3++ and eternal warrior. But the latter certainly won't fit in your pts.

I would certainly go unbound, dropping the troops for horrors. But we'll ignore that in interests of the tournament.

I think you forgot VotLW on your bikes. Which is a shame because it might mean dropping MoT on the lord.

Have you considered maulerfiends for your anti wave serpent duty? The points savings could get you some horrors and a grimoire. It would also bring more of your army to the front, near the protection of your flying overlords. Though it would leave you really hurting against fliers.

Overall I think it's a very cool idea and am quite interested in hearing how it works. I usually toss a slaanesh sorcerer at any big problem but that isn't quite as reliable as this. Force can always be denied and it's impossible to swing ap2 at initiative order. So usually I just go with the force stave and hope weight of wounds allows for a single instant death to get through. I am however learning that this does not work against the 2+ re-rollable of a Warboss with lucky stikk. Something this hand lord would dispatch of quite easily.
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post #3 of 4 (permalink) Old 09-16-14, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NathanJD View Post
Have you considered maulerfiends for your anti wave serpent duty? The points savings could get you some horrors and a grimoire. It would also bring more of your army to the front, near the protection of your flying overlords. Though it would leave you really hurting against fliers.
I have considered it, actually. The reason I really went with the Forgefiend was that it can get Prescience cast on it the first turn, use Daemonforge, and average 2.25 hull points off of a jinking Wave Serpent on T1. The fewer turns the enemy has in order to shoot bunches of Ignores Cover S7 shots against my 2+ cover save army, the better. With the Maulerfiend, I can't touch them the first turn; with the Forgefiend, not only can I possibly knock a Wave Serpent out of commission from the get go, but I also have a shot at getting First Blood.

Hmm, crap, you're right about the bikers. Still not too used to having to slap VotLW onto everything. Hmm... MoT or a Screamer, that's about what my choices boil down to. With the Skull, yeah, I think I can give up the MoT, but... arg. Fine. 2 more cultists, too, I guess.

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Originally Posted by NathanJD View Post
I'd consider a jet bike just for shenanigans or maybe a crucible of lies to go with his 3++ and eternal warrior. But the latter certainly won't fit in your pts.
Yeah. The -1T aspect of the Crucible leaves me leery, for all that 3++ rerolling 1s is great (as opponents who've faced my Grimoire'd Burning Chariot will attest--that's one tough AV10 vehicle!). Plus, well, technically the "you have to replace a weapon to bring an artifact" sentence in the CSM book isn't qualified in any way in the BL or CS expansions (like it is in the main book for the Key or Scrolls), so every artifact in those 2 books has to be in exchange for a weapon, RAW. Not something I'd bring up in casual play, but if I were to bring this list to the competition I mentioned, I wouldn't want to field a technically illegal loadout by taking 4 relics on a Lord who only has 3 weapons, counting his bike's bolter.

I'll report out after I play the list some. I've also posted an alternate version of it with only CSM, if you're interested, called "One Shot KO."

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!

Last edited by Mossy Toes; 09-16-14 at 07:43 PM.
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post #4 of 4 (permalink) Old 09-30-14, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NathanJD
Have you considered maulerfiends for your anti wave serpent duty? The points savings could get you some horrors and a grimoire. It would also bring more of your army to the front, near the protection of your flying overlords. Though it would leave you really hurting against fliers.
I have considered it, actually. The reason I really went with the Forgefiend was that it can get Prescience cast on it the first turn, use Daemonforge, and average 2.25 hull points off of a jinking Wave Serpent on T1. The fewer turns the enemy has in order to shoot bunches of Ignores Cover S7 shots against my 2+ cover save army, the better. With the Maulerfiend, I can't touch them the first turn; with the Forgefiend, not only can I possibly knock a Wave Serpent out of commission from the get go, but I also have a shot at getting First Blood.
Returning to this idea, after a tournament with the list. I think I'm going to go with it. Freeing up the 50 points will be great, but I also figured I could make the Maulerfiend rather more survivable than the Forgefiend. See, the Forgefiend will generally go off on its own and try to snipe tanks with clear lanes of fire and the like, but the Maulerfiend can stick in the Shrouded bubble and just hunker down behind the front line to get 25% obscured for a 3+ cover save. Sure, I sacrifice just about the only unit in my army that can shoot (to say nothing of do anything to flyers, except Fatey's S5 Flickering Flames), and with it my chance at First Blood (assuming my opponent has enough firepower and/or Ignores Cover to focus down one of my units), but...

Hey, Daemonforge on S10/melta hits against an Imperial Knight!

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
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