1500 pt Tzeentch and Khorn List, Criticisms welcome - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-17-13, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ork Mad's Avatar
Ork Mad's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neston
Posts: 187
Reputation: 1
Default 1500 pt Tzeentch and Khorn List, Criticisms welcome

HQ
Fateweaver

Herald of Tzeentch
Chariot, Blue Horror Crew, ML2

Herald of Tzeentch
Exalted Rewards, Exalted Loci, ML2

Herald of Khorn
Lesser Reward, Lesser Loci

Troops
15 Bloodletters
Banner of Blood

16 Pink Horrors

Fast Attack
4 Screamers

Heavy Support
Burning Chariot
Blue Horror Crew

Daemon Prince
Tzeentch, Flight, Exalted and Greater Rewards, ML3

Total: 1499


Tactics:
have the daemon prince with a mutating warpblade and the doomstone, charge him into combat (probable with the opponents best characters) and have the 2 chariots close to him (so the blue horror crew works well with the doomstone and the herald can make sure that the prince dose well). the second herald of tzeentch has the grimoire of true names/the portalglyph (i haven't fully decided yet, and also i can change it at the start of the game if i wish to better suite my opponent) and is with the pink horror squad. the herald of khorn has the axe of khorne (providing ap2 and instant death to the bloodletter squad) and is with the bloodletter squad. one of the heads of fateweaver is going to have physic shrike (so if the 2 chariots are near the target that's going to be quite nasty) and he is going to be providing support where needed.

so what do you think? will this work well against most opponents?

Ork Mad is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-17-13, 08:11 PM
Senior Member
Iniquity's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 197
Reputation: 1
Default

I like the idea behind this, but I don't think you have enough threats. The Horrors and Bloodletters can easily be decimated from any amount of shooting that comes towards them, you'll only get two shots off max with the Horrors before an opponent locks them in CC. Granted those shots should do well, but once in CC, the best you can hope is to raptor the unit until help arrives. Both chariots will crumble from any amount of heavy weapons fire. The Daemon Prince I feel is your strongest model, followed by Fateweaver.

The Doomstone only works against non-Daemon characters, and only in CC. Prolonged combat can see it come into play, possibly cutting a second round short with the chariots help, if they survive that long. The abundance of fearless or near fearless lists means the lower leadership only matters when they are reduced to 0 or if you lose CC and then psychic shriek them, although they could still use the higher non-character leadership.

I think you'll fare well against many CC lists, but will struggle against any kind of shooting list. The overall frailty of the majority of the models won't last if you can't get to CC immediately. The Screamers can draw some fire if the opponent has some armour, but otherwise they aren't a very high threat in my mind. I'm also not sold on the Bloodletters.
Iniquity is offline  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-18-13, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ork Mad's Avatar
Ork Mad's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neston
Posts: 187
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iniquity View Post
I like the idea behind this, but I don't think you have enough threats. The Horrors and Bloodletters can easily be decimated from any amount of shooting that comes towards them, you'll only get two shots off max with the Horrors before an opponent locks them in CC. Granted those shots should do well, but once in CC, the best you can hope is to raptor the unit until help arrives. Both chariots will crumble from any amount of heavy weapons fire. The Daemon Prince I feel is your strongest model, followed by Fateweaver.

The Doomstone only works against non-Daemon characters, and only in CC. Prolonged combat can see it come into play, possibly cutting a second round short with the chariots help, if they survive that long. The abundance of fearless or near fearless lists means the lower leadership only matters when they are reduced to 0 or if you lose CC and then psychic shriek them, although they could still use the higher non-character leadership.

I think you'll fare well against many CC lists, but will struggle against any kind of shooting list. The overall frailty of the majority of the models won't last if you can't get to CC immediately. The Screamers can draw some fire if the opponent has some armour, but otherwise they aren't a very high threat in my mind. I'm also not sold on the Bloodletters.
a good summary thanks,
so what should i do to make it function better, what should i remove to make more threats?

Ork Mad is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-18-13, 08:21 AM
Entropy Fetishist
 
Mossy Toes's Avatar
Mossy Toes's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eš
Posts: 4,249
Reputation: 117
Default

Hmmm. If you're going for an anti-leadership army, you should consider what Slaanesh has to offer in terms of the Excess psychic powers and access to Telepathy. Additionally, any LD-check-forcing army really needs one thing: Imperial Guard allies. Specifically, a Psyker Battle Squad, which has the "Weaken Resolve" psychic power which lowers the enemy LD by 1 per member of the squad--up to -9 LD. Needless to say, this stacks with the Doomstone, Pavane of Slaanesh, Psychic Shriek, etc, very well indeed.

As it stands, you have no guarantee that you'll be able to remain in combat with the enemy unit against the Doomstone long enough for it to take full effect. I wouldn't be surprised if the enemy character, whether in a challenge or not, would be able to kill the Herald by then. If you were running, say, a Keeper of Secrets with the Doomstone (and Excess/Telepathy powers at ML3)... you might be in a happier place.

I'm kind of working off a list I made previously that works on similar principles: here, take a look...

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
Mossy Toes is offline  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-18-13, 08:53 AM
Senior Member
Iniquity's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 197
Reputation: 1
Default

Daemon Prince has the Doomstone, Mossy.

However, I don't think the Doomstone works best there, unless you face opponents with a lot of characters in a single unit. The Prince should handle most single character units on it's own. If you aren't looking for a list like Mossy linked, the removal of the Doomstone should probably lead to the removal of the chariots as well.

Possible changes might include another Horror or Bloodletter squad, or another heavy hitter, like a Soulgrinder who would bring long range shooting power. Typically, you should have a couple more troop choices at 1500. This list doesn't have an abundance of wide spread killing power in my mind, and would benefit from more objective grabbing troops as I see the potential for drawn out combats.

My likes and preferences, as well as what works in my local, won't adequately represent what you experience. If you like the initial list and think it will be fun, give it a spin. If you're looking for something more competitive, I probably wouldn't go Tzeentch, they were big last codex and saw a big reduction this go around.
Iniquity is offline  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 03-18-13, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Ork Mad's Avatar
Ork Mad's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neston
Posts: 187
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
Hmmm. If you're going for an anti-leadership army, you should consider what Slaanesh has to offer in terms of the Excess psychic powers and access to Telepathy. Additionally, any LD-check-forcing army really needs one thing: Imperial Guard allies. Specifically, a Psyker Battle Squad, which has the "Weaken Resolve" psychic power which lowers the enemy LD by 1 per member of the squad--up to -9 LD. Needless to say, this stacks with the Doomstone, Pavane of Slaanesh, Psychic Shriek, etc, very well indeed.

As it stands, you have no guarantee that you'll be able to remain in combat with the enemy unit against the Doomstone long enough for it to take full effect. I wouldn't be surprised if the enemy character, whether in a challenge or not, would be able to kill the Herald by then. If you were running, say, a Keeper of Secrets with the Doomstone (and Excess/Telepathy powers at ML3)... you might be in a happier place.

I'm kind of working off a list I made previously that works on similar principles: here, take a look...
that looks like a decent list, however i have almost no imperial guard and no slannesh models, not to mention i don't like slannesh (or nurgle for that matter) but if im to improve this list based around this strategy i can see how a phyker battle squad would improve its efficiency more than a blue horror chariot


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iniquity View Post
If you're looking for something more competitive, I probably wouldn't go Tzeentch, they were big last codex and saw a big reduction this go around.
Tzeentch is my favorite of the gods, so im trying to make a tzeentch list that is effective and powerful against other lists without (much) help from the other gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iniquity View Post
Daemon Prince has the Doomstone, Mossy.

However, I don't think the Doomstone works best there, unless you face opponents with a lot of characters in a single unit. The Prince should handle most single character units on it's own. If you aren't looking for a list like Mossy linked, the removal of the Doomstone should probably lead to the removal of the chariots as well.

Possible changes might include another Horror or Bloodletter squad, or another heavy hitter, like a Soulgrinder who would bring long range shooting power. Typically, you should have a couple more troop choices at 1500. This list doesn't have an abundance of wide spread killing power in my mind, and would benefit from more objective grabbing troops as I see the potential for drawn out combats.

My likes and preferences, as well as what works in my local, won't adequately represent what you experience. If you like the initial list and think it will be fun, give it a spin.
so your saying swap the burning chariot for another squad of pink horrors, take the herald off the other chariot and give him an exalted loci an put him with the second pink horrors squad, give the daemon prince the portalglyph (or a roll on the exalted table) and swap the greater reward for a lesser, (though as the rolls on the tables are done at the start of the game i can still have the doomstone if my opponent uses a lot of characters)

Ork Mad is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Army Lists > Chaos Daemon Army Lists

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome