Dan Abnett really dropped the ball with "Legion" - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #21 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-09-11, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
Honestly, I think Prospero Burns is is nearly Dan's best, not his worst. Sure, it's not bolter porn, but it's the closest BL has got to actual literature (followed by others such as LotN, Angels of Darkness, TFH, etc). It suffers, somewhat, because it was mis-marketed and suffers from Abnett-you've-reached-the-end-of-the-book-and-have-to-stop-writing-now-I-don't-care-that-you-have-to-tie-up-the-conclusion-unsatisfactorily-again Syndrome...but it's still a great piece of work.

Legion is another strong entry, to me. An even more pronounced case of the aformentioned syndrome, but I don't count the whole book as a failure because the end was a bit abrupt. And besides, as has been mentioned already, the Alpha Legion had spent the whole book doing things "their way"--their hardly liable to switch now and become Word Bearers preaching one creed and belief. Just weep for them, that the Heresy was not successful and 40k has descended to its current nightmare state...
Bull's eye Mossy Toes! Propero Burns is a very good book. Glad to see I'm not the only one who distinguishes between "literature" and "bolter porn"!

I do also agree with other posters here who see Abnett in his writing more interested in "humans" than Astartes. I'd say there's more to explore in a human character, especially in the HH world. MANY of his best BL works focus on humans rather than Astartes: Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn, Ravenor. And outside of BL: Embedded.

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post #22 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 07:33 AM
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I think Dan's Heresy books all have been really good. Some Gaunt books and Brothers of the Snake are just really bad.

Think his best work outside HH has been Eisenhorn and Titanicus.
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post #23 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 09:48 AM
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I would like to comment here again

I still can not beleive this sort of thread exists but I've read the comments again and I can understand why you might not be a fan of the book.

My next thought after re-reading the comments was that perhaps Dan Abnett writes the human characters into his story and focuses much of the attention onto them is because Dan Abnett and his readers are human and can find common ground or at least recognise flaws and strengths as opposed to Astartes with whom none of us can can find common ground.

As it happens, the agent Gramatticus is the only character we could have any connection with (despite how awesome super agent he is )which is why he is so central. Along with the Gaurdsmen who play important roles in the plot.

And as it's the first proper book that shows how the Legion function (again later in Age of Darkness) we get an opportunity to understand how the spying, supterfuge, long game of manipulation works for them.

It's a great book! I just find it such a shame that some people don't see it that way.
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post #24 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mob View Post
I think I've mentioned this before, but has anyone else here read Use of Weapons by Iain M Banks? I'm dying to talk to someone about Legion who has.
I have - Think I have read all M Banks until the last one, and it is on my 'to read' list. What's the parallel you see?
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post #25 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-10-11, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TooNu View Post
I would like to comment here again

I still can not beleive this sort of thread exists but I've read the comments again and I can understand why you might not be a fan of the book.

My next thought after re-reading the comments was that perhaps Dan Abnett writes the human characters into his story and focuses much of the attention onto them is because Dan Abnett and his readers are human and can find common ground or at least recognise flaws and strengths as opposed to Astartes with whom none of us can can find common ground.

As it happens, the agent Gramatticus is the only character we could have any connection with (despite how awesome super agent he is )which is why he is so central. Along with the Gaurdsmen who play important roles in the plot.

And as it's the first proper book that shows how the Legion function (again later in Age of Darkness) we get an opportunity to understand how the spying, supterfuge, long game of manipulation works for them.

It's a great book! I just find it such a shame that some people don't see it that way.
Hey TooNu,
I agree it is ashame but remember that it is only a persons opinion. I useally love Dan's books but prospero burns just didn't resonate with me. We will always have people who tastes differ and that is a great thing as long as we all respect each others opinions.

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post #26 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-12-11, 11:13 AM
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Legion and Prospero Burns I would sya really give credits to each Legion they tell the story about. I cant disagree that its cool to see Alpha Legion going their own way and the Wolves look upon how you deal with knowledge, but I didnt like the books really that much besides that.

Legion was highly confusing for me, even though Im not native to the English language, and PB had a misleading title, too many jumps back and forth and I felt nothing about the Astartes characters. But as said, the Legions are portrayed really good.
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post #27 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-15-11, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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I liked Prospero Burns. At least I managed to see what makes them tick, something I didn't get from the space wolves books which just presented them as feral space viking werewolves.

Didn't really care much about reading about the shenanigans of giggling girls cavorting in some gene infantry regiment. I wanted to read about Alpha Legion, not the people attached to them. Again, I can't suspend my disbelief to accept that the Primarchs were so foolish as to accept xenos magic at face value in order to make an idiotic, ridiculous choice, especially when the Emperor was less about destroying Chaos than taming it in the first place. I really feel Dan forced this one over his reader's heads. Who would accept this apart from his die-hard fans?

Read Iron Snakes. Thought it was OK until the part the chapter fought Orks that outnumbered them many times in open battle, using archaic battle formations. I remember that method not, from the Codex Astartes...
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post #28 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-15-11, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooNu View Post
I would like to comment here again

I still can not beleive this sort of thread exists but I've read the comments again and I can understand why you might not be a fan of the book.

My next thought after re-reading the comments was that perhaps Dan Abnett writes the human characters into his story and focuses much of the attention onto them is because Dan Abnett and his readers are human and can find common ground or at least recognise flaws and strengths as opposed to Astartes with whom none of us can can find common ground.

As it happens, the agent Gramatticus is the only character we could have any connection with (despite how awesome super agent he is )which is why he is so central. Along with the Gaurdsmen who play important roles in the plot.

And as it's the first proper book that shows how the Legion function (again later in Age of Darkness) we get an opportunity to understand how the spying, supterfuge, long game of manipulation works for them.

It's a great book! I just find it such a shame that some people don't see it that way.
Yes, I suspect that Dan Abnett has no ability to write Space Marines, xenos or villains in any depth. In most of his stories these folks are given superficial treatment.

Perhaps this may explain why the Emperor is portrayed as a white-hat in the Horus Heresy series. Perhaps because there is some feeling that fans will not accept a very morally ambiguous and machiavellian Emperor of Mankind.
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post #29 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-15-11, 10:29 AM
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Like myself and others have said countless times, how could the Alpha Legion have been written in any other way? They absoloutely had to be written about from an outside perspective, else it would have ruined the whole point of them. And again regarding their decision at the end, have you read what the others have put? It's impossible to know what choice the Alpha Legion actually made, as others have said, the novel showed that they always do everything their own way, the chances are they choose a third option as opposed to the two the Cabal offered them.
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post #30 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-15-11, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Moriar the Forsaken View Post
Yes, I suspect that Dan Abnett has no ability to write Space Marines, xenos or villains in any depth. In most of his stories these folks are given superficial treatment.
Have you read Horus Rising? Loken is a brilliantly written character, as are Torgaddon, Tarvitz etc.
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